Replacing Eplex

[Iron Man]

This was talked about on another thread, so I thought about starting its own thread.

Those of us with E-plex see the writing on the wall, replacement parts costs are way out of line.

I don't want to wait until I have a problem to start researching a cost effective replacement for the system. My only cocnern is being able to use the existing wiring. Running new wires would be a next to impossible task.

What reccomendation do you have on a suitable replacement?

["007"]

This link does not indicate they are going away soon.
Would think if they were to change it out to different system they would come up with the suggestions.

[Perry White]

It's not gone as long as you own a BOAT, but its kaput for RV's. Give Newmar a call on them. NO new parts are being manufactured. When stock is gone it's over. That's why a $93 tank sensor is $1,267 from Newmar if you can find one. The boat system is the same, but it has to be programed, and Newmar isn't going to share that, now, are they? Well, guess what!!! If you look hard the software, called E-Logic, is on this forum.

And Newmars suggestion as a replacement is dump your 2011's on down and buy a new 2012 Coach with Silverleaf.

This is where a GOOD ext warranty is going to pay off.

[ottffss]

As 007 points out, there is NO current indication that e-plex is going away or gone - though it looked shaky about a year ago. While there are significant current supply/cost issues resulting from the recent spate of e-plex division corporate transfers, there is NO reason to think this will not clear up in time. It is completely untrue that the parts are no longer being made - at least as of 6 months or so ago while I was chatting with the Newmar guys about it. In fact, some parts have been redesigned. It appears the current price aberration is more of a supply issue, not a production issue. Once the NOS parts holders and the new owner (whoever that may be these days) settles out with new production and they decide how to service the RV market vs. the marine market, things should return to normal.

There is no difference between the marine and RV versions of e-plex and the sensors are the same and all the sensors are "programmed" directly from the e-plex clock module only by pushing a couple buttons on it. You may need to modify fittings, but the electronics are the same.

Here's a cut-n-paste from a CorporateMonkey post many months ago. And it does appear that e-plex has once again changed hands from what is pasted below, however the North America distributor still looks to be Bass Products.......
-------------------
I contacted one of my sources and I got an off the record report on the company, and how Newmar is involved.

The E-Plex history, which is exceedingly ambiguous, goes something like
this. The ED&D division of Airpax was the original maker of E-Plex many
moons ago. This division was last sold to Sensata in January, 2008
(Sensata Sensors, Klixon, Switches, Controls, Airpax : The World Depends on Sensors and Controls). However a short 6 months later -

"On June 26, 2008, Sensata closed on the sale of the E-Plex business to a
principal shareholder of Wes-Garde Components Group, the largest distributor
of the E-Plex product line (Wes-Garde Components Distributor of Electro-Mechanical Components). The E-Plex line, which is
comprised of power distribution modules, sensors and software used in marine
and recreational vehicles, was acquired as part of the Airpax Holdings, Inc.
acquisition which occurred in July, 2007. This business had approximately
$2.5 million in net revenue for the last twelve months. The sale of E-Plex
is in line with Sensata’s overall strategy of aligning resources to the core
business." (from Sensata annual report)

It is possible that Wes Garde has since resold the inventory to Bass
Products (BASS | Product Information - The E-Plex System, the only portable weather and navigation product designed specifically for boaters) a marine parts supply firm as Bass
is NOW Newmar’s distributor of ePlex parts.

[CorporateMonkey]

My ears are burning

I don't know what is happening currently with Eplex, but I do see them in trouble. Even if they get their supply issues under control, they have permanently damaged their brand with all the ownership changes.

A lot of boat builders are/have moved away from eplex to other systems. This is become a self full filling downward spiral.

Now back to the OP's question:

First off I do not have access to an Eplex coach, so take that into account when reading this.

If you have an earlier coach that has eplex, but does NOT have multiplex wiring for lighting, there is an easy solution.

Bypass eplex.

You will need a few components to do this, but I don't see any of this being extremely difficult, or expensive.

First off you will need the stand alone controller/display for the Magnum inverter. You might also have to purchase the magnum gen start controller.

Basically you will need to remove the eplex module from the inverter and plug in OEM Magnum display. If I remember right it uses a simple RJ11 phone cord. This sort of cable is so slim you could easily fish it up from the basement into a compartment suitable for mounting the display.

Next you will need to purchase a tank monitoring system. There are many many on the market. I have looked into a few, and basic setups are not that expensive.

Adding the stand alone Dometic thermostat is an easy affair. You could run 3 separate thermostats if installation is an issue. One can control 4 zones, and all the wiring is located inside the roof A/C's


Basically the eplex system is a fancy controller for the same systems that the same generation Mountain Aire has. The two coaches are nearly identical system wise except for the slightly larger generator (12kw vs 10kw).

This is not like changing out a bus conversion Crestron system...

["007"]

Thanks for the further explanation ottffss and CorporateMonkey of what some seem to see as a problem.
As Corporate has said there is a solution to it if there is a problem.
Has anyone call the mfg contact in the link I provided for their explanation.
What ever way you look at it its expensive.

[Perry White]

Call Bass Products LLC and ask for Tom at Extension 350. He's the E-plex man. I believe they are willing to sell direct due to dist problems.

Here's some reading from 2010
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Weblog: Distributed Power over N2K, and goodbye E-Plex?

[eplex-dealer]

To all:
As the posting above states, the product line of E-Plex is still alive and well. There are boat and RV customers employing the product line, and even new manufacturers developing vessels and vehicles with the E-Plex technology.

There are 2 E-Plex System Integrators (dealers) in the United States and Newmar has a supply chain in place through which they can purchase the product line if they so chose.

The current ownership of E-Plex has done a signficant amount of product development work in order to continue to improve the product line. As an example the tank sensors have recently been completely redesigned for even better reliability. Other components continue to get upgrades to improve functionality and to meet the needs of our customer's requests.

Additionally, completely new E-Plex components continue to be introduced. Within the last year the 801iPlex module has been introduced which allows the vehicle owner to interface with the E-Plex System via an i"Device" (Phone, Pad, etc.) Newmar could be offering this as an upgrade to their currently deployed systems.

Our company has been outfitting vessels & vehicles based around E-Plex with computers (PC's) that allow our customers to monitor & control their E-Plex system functions remotely over the internet (from home, airport, anywhere you have your smartphone linked to the internet). If you have a security camera onboard you can even watch that remotely.

We also have a GSM/SAT based Security System with GPS tracking and it is all controlled by a E-Plex system.

Bottomline, E-Plex is ALIVE and WELL. You should be enjoying all the great features of E-Plex! Those of you that have Newmar coaches with E-Plex should be asking Newmar where these enhancements are in their product line.

I am sure Newmar will continue to do everything they can to provide all of their customers with the best product support available. If Newmar needs further assistance in order to provide continued support of the E-Plex based vehicles I am confident one of the 2 E-Plex System Integrators in North America will be more than happy to provide support for all E-Plex Maintenace and System enhancements.

Thanks for your time and Happy RVing....

Sincerely,

Jim Kelly

["007"]

Thank you Jim for that good information.

[ottffss]

eplrx-dealer

Am I correct that the 2 distributors in NA you speak of are Bass Products and Precision Race Services?

Welcome to Precision Race Services, Inc.

BASS Products, LLC | Electrical Control Panels and Accessories for the Marine and Specialty Vehicle Industries

Also, can you shed some light on the e-plex parts pricing which has gotten out of hand? Newmar now charges $1200'ish for a water level sender that formerly retailed for $100'ish. What is the real story behind that?

BTW - Nemwar, by all indications has dropped e-plex in new rigs, in favor of a Silverleaf setup. So while we'd like to see Nemwar continue its support of e-plex it appears any new development will be Silverleaf.

[eplex-dealer]

To all:

Trying my best to stay within the guidelines of the forum rules and I also have no desire to completely cheese off Newmar.

1) My company, PRS, Co. is the offshoot of Precision Race Services, Inc. (PRS, Inc.). In a very amicible separation, my business partner and I split PRS, Inc. almost 2 years ago with PRS, Co. keeping the E-Plex product line and PRS, Inc. handling the motorsports electrical system work we had been doing for 20 years. Both entities still exist and work as cooperatively as possible. The website addresses are the same except the race side is a ".com" and the E-Plex side is ".us"

2) PRS has never been involved with the sale of E-Plex products to Newmar. My understanding of the situation is that Newmar bought E-Plex products directly from the original manufacturer ED&D and was granted special pricing for its commitment to the E-Plex product line. It is also my understanding that Newmar has always invested heavily in the E-Plex product line including having their own trained staff to do the E-Plex program development, etc. (this is rare within the industries that choose to employ the E-Plex product line)

The current E-Plex product line manufacturer (or its dealers) can not control the amount that Newmar charges for the parts. That said I can tell you that a price of in the "100ish " is extremely low but a price in the "$1200ish" exceeds the retail price of a non programmed part.

That said a non-programmed part is worthless. Again Newmar has invested a significant amount of time and effort into the E-Plex product line to create the programming and support it.

It is my hope that we can find a way to work with Newmar to accomplish the following goals:

1) Make sure that Newmar and all of its customers receive the support necessary to address all issues with the E-Plex implementation in Newmar coaches, including but not limited to replacement parts and issue resolution;
2) Assist Newmar in the maintenace of E-Plex systems in all of its E-Plex outfited vehicles through BASS, PRS, or E-Plex Ltd (the manufacturer).
3) Assist Newmar and its customer base whose vehicles have E-Plex systems to get the most from their vehicles so that RVing is truly an enjoyable experience which may include providing a path way to E-Plex product enhancements.

If there are any additional questions I can answer please let me know.

Jim Kelly

[CorporateMonkey]

Note: I am saying this as someone with a NON-eplex coach, but I do have a good understanding of the automation industry (Crestron, AMX, etc...)


One way Eplex could restore its luster is to work with Newmar to release both the programming software, and the system source code.

The problem I see on the horizon is owners who attempt to sell an Eplex equipped coach. Right now I would say Eplex is not a "plus" when dealing with informed purchasers.

This is not just an Eplex issue, but it is an issue throughout the automation industry. How many people have bought homes/bus conversions/yachts with automation systems (AMX, Eplex, Crestron) only to find out not only are future updates are difficult, but can be exceedingly expensive.

This is usually not because of the actual equipment costs, but because of the programming costs. If the original programmer is out of business, or does not deal with a type of system anymore, finding a 3rd party that can help can be difficult.

I have read too many stories of people having to hire a programmer to redo a system from scratch because of these issues. That can easily run into the 10's of thousands of dollars.

Even Marathon Coach realized this was an issue. There are now independent 3rd party Crestron installers than can work with Marathon's "Techlink" system. It makes purchasing an older coach a less scary proposition.

[eplex-dealer]

Originally Posted by CorporateMonkey

Note: I am saying this as someone with a NON-eplex coach, but I do have a good understanding of the automation industry (Crestron, AMX, etc...)


One way Eplex could restore its luster is to work with Newmar to release both the programming software, and the system source code.

The problem I see on the horizon is owners who attempt to sell an Eplex equipped coach. Right now I would say Eplex is not a "plus" when dealing with informed purchasers.

To respond to the point above...

1) The E-Plex programming software is available.
2) As I have said in other posts, the system source code is the property of Newmar and it is at their sole discretion to put this property into someone else’s hands. Quite honestly, as difficult as the situation might be now, the code for individual vehicles in the hands of someone who thinks they know what they are doing could be 1000’s of times worse than what you have now.

E-Plex systems are completely tunable and there needs to be a significant effort put toward proper system requirements, system design, software development, system testing, and version control. A lapse in any one of these areas can be a cause of many headaches for any OEM implementing E-Plex and their customers.

These efforts do not come cheaply and thus the costs associated with them.

That said it would be great to find a way for the sake of Newmar and all of their coach owners (and future owners) with E-Plex systems to have a quality way to have the vehicles maintained and supported. It sounds like Newmar has been trying to do just that, yet there also seems to be some vehicle owners that would appreciate some additional steps.

I highly recommend that Newmar customers talk to their contacts at Newmar and ask them what if anything can be done to take those additional steps.

Jim Kelly

[ottffss]

eplex-dealer

I just want to confirm proper terminology for those that continue to talk e-plex...

??? Am I correct in saying - ???

The "programming software" from/for e-plex 1) is called e-Logic and 2) was (is still?) freely available on the net (from the former ED&D site) but is not available as readily now.

It seems there are 2 versions of e-Logic out there: the older Elogic v196.3266 and Elogic v198.3276 which seems to be the latest and greatest...

e-Logic also requires what appears to be a special serial cable that plugs directly into the front port of the e-plex "clock" (as Nemwar calls it) and then into a laptop serial port.

The so called proprietary "system source code" is the .ELC file loaded by the e-Logic program and contains all the detailed programming (e.g. the "pulse count" to "display value" lookup tables and the other forms of "logic programming" - the "if this then switch that" logic) used by Newmar for each module address/function. It is this .ELC file that is edited by e-Logic which then loads into the e-Plex clock module via the serial cable. This .ELC file has not been readily available from Newmar.

??? Is the above terminology correct ?????

BTW More Newmar specific details and lots of e-Logic screen shots available in the pdf attachments in this post.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/e-pl...tml#post968316