Robots or Manmade Newmars? The factory...

[NealC]

I read something recently in another thread where someone preferred that Newmars were essentially "hand made". I have only opinions, no facts on what's better so my opinion...

Build quality is not consistent from what I read here. I'm very fortunate and think my VTDP is the odd ball in build quality, on the good side. End of year production, not the most complex of coaches, etc. However on the topic of hand made vs. robotic, my preference would be robotic. It would offer consistent results, programmed construction such as wire paths, fatigue is not in play (have you seen the guy with the router cutting holes in the fiberglass sides?). I doubt Newmar's production numbers could ever warrant the cost of going automated (again, no clue on what this would cost) but in the spirit of the discussion what is your opinion on quality in automation vs. hand made? It sure would help in their manning shortages, it's not like it's going to put anyone out of a job, they can't find enough people by the order of tens of thousands.

[TJ]

Neal:

Automation is fine for repetitive assembly, but there are so many variations in the Newmar model lineup that I wonder if it would even be possible. And, remember, only part of the complete unit is even produced at Newmar. They start with a complete chassis/drive train and assemble a "house" on it. Those "houses" range from 32' to 45' in length.

I suspect the build quality of hand-assembled units like Newmar coaches varies by the model level. We have noticed an upgrade in the quality of the Mountain Aire over the Ventana LE we had previously. The VTLE was not shoddy, but did lack some of the quality we've found in the MADP. And, we've found a couple of head scratchers in the new MADP; things you would figure would have been corrected before the coach ever left the plant. They were just "workmanship" issues that I would have never have let go by if I were the workman.

And, I don't think automation ("robots") would have improved the build quality. In fact, when I think of today's mass produced items, I pretty much expect lower quality in the final product.

TJ

[wildtoad]

I suppose that if Newmar or others would use robots if they were going to make thousands of the same component or sub components. Probably not practical for hundreds or less of an individual model.

Then again making things by hand requires someone to be employed which is a good thing. Costlier but a good thing.

[HavingABlast]

NealC, as usual you post some interesting questions.

I am retired now, but when I worked, I was the Controller at a manufacturing facility that had two lines. One was very much (but not completely automated), the other was totally operated by hand. Both had continuous oversight from Quality Assurance. We were an ISO9001 company.

Yes, manual labor is subject to issues. But, machines require calibration in addition to preventive maintenance. I don’t think automation is going to totally fix the problem a Newmar. Quality oversight on the shop floor might.

I say “might” because IMHO when you pay production to manufacture X number of widgets each day, and allow them leave work, no matter what time it is, some will take shortcuts in order to earn an early out. Without a robust QA staff, production isn’t held accountable for their work. I would have argued significantly against a pay by the piece method should that have been a topic of consideration where I worked.

We were a Lean Manufacturing facility and quality was evaluated at each step along the way for both our automated and manual lines. If work station four received sub quality assembly from work station three, they were returned to stage three for rework. Our throughput and quality dramatically improved when everyone on the shop floor was held accountable.

Some process at Newmar could be automated, but my preference (which is what you are asking) is that Newmar rely on manual labor to build our coaches with all of the specials that we want. They have some really talented folks there! I would add the caveat that shop floor accountability be ramped way up, and to pay production folks by the hour, not by the piece.

Nobody want a house built on a Friday going into a long weekend!

[Stuart W]

Interesting subject Neal, we have all read or talked about the 0 unemployment rate in Indiana. In my opinion, when Newmar increases production and hires workers that are not specifically trained (programed)for the job, QC suffers

Now if we are talking automation, the equipment is always programmed to do it the exact same way every time, In my opinion this would result in a more finished correctly product every time
Pre made wiring harnesses would also make a significant improvement


If you have ever watched a Winnebago production video, they are closer to this then anyone I have seen so far

[Cloud Dancer]

I spent 9 days at Newmar, back when I picked up my special-ordered Dutch Star. It wasn't a pleasant experience, but I learned a few things about how they think.
Robots? I don't think it would work for Newmar.l

[Canuck53]

Do you think you would want robots to build your custom designed home?

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by Canuck53

Do you think you would want robots to build your custom designed home?

Good point, I’m talking structurally. And more uniform wiring is just a fantasy [emoji4]

[NealC]

Take the fiberglass sidewalls for example. Your design could be programmed in and would be before it ever hit assembly. Enter your production number and the design is loaded and router cuts made.

The glue that holds the fiberglass in place, i.e. "welds" could be done more precisely and uniformly. TJ had delamination, others have as well, this could prevent that.

Wires could be pulled and bundled via automation, no "free wiring" which we all love (sarcasm).

Slides could be installed with precision. Bolts torqued to specs (not someone going tight enough as happened in my last November visit when I asked for slide motors to be torque checked which he did without a torque wrench!)

There is room for this but when you mate electronics and Newmar (or any coach manufacturer) they don't blend well right now. I do prefer the interior such as woodworking done by hand but quite frankly that's a candidate for automation as well. There is no reason for routing and cabinets to be done by hand, if they are (not sure) now. All of that saves time, adds precision, and saves manpower which is not in surplus in that area now.

I'm sure it's a big investment and a long term ROI which just a few years ago staying above water was the only objective.

Just a thought. I think we all have concerns and that butterfly in the stomach wondering what's going to break next, will my slide work, will my jacks come up, etc. etc. We don't have the level of trust as we do in the auto industry where it's not even a thought.

[GaryKD]

Hi Stuart W,
Many of the customer ordered specials are for and electrical this and that. Don't think premade wiring harnesses would be any benefit at Newmar. Not sure why you have reposted the premade wiring harness idea several times. For me I see no business case.

[Chargerman]

Having owned a few precision manufacturing companies with highly skilled employees and automation I am very confident that automation in specific areas of Newmar’s line would improve quality. As Neil points out, installing the adhesive, cutting openings among other difficult labor tasks would benefit from automation. Premise wiring harnesses with specific wire channels would also help reliability. Having seen Newmar’s and others production floors I was quite shocked at the lack of quality focus and in process Q.C. checks. I was also taken back by the huge lists of quality issues taped to the side of finishes units and folks all over them repairing these issues. I personally don’t see any of the builders making the investment in automation any time soon. It is a very expensive investment and the return would start for some time. Also, making the transition to more employee accountability will also be difficult for them considering the current employee mindset and also considering that many would head to the competition in the area if their pocketbooks were affected negatively during the transition to higher accountability in the processes.

I do feel that the first builder that is willing to make the investment and pay the short term cost to truly embrace a quality system will have a major advantage in the industry and with that their output, quality issues and profit will all benefit dramatically

[Dutch Star Don]

Neal.....when you first posed the question, I immediately thought that automation wouldn't work, especially since the thing that could benefit most by automation was the chassis. I still think there are too many variables to use automation, but the idea of a large computer table doing all of the side wall cuts with a robot, sounds like a good idea. Window, windshields, slide and other openings would always be perfect. "Specials" could be preloaded into the computer and added to the cuts.....like the optional kitchen window, or vent for microwave.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by GaryKD

Hi Stuart W,
Many of the customer ordered specials are for and electrical this and that. Don't think premade wiring harnesses would be any benefit at Newmar. Not sure why you have reposted the premade wiring harness idea several times. For me I see no business case.

Gary I find that Newmar runs hundreds if not thousands of extra feet of wires so running some extra wires at the time the harness are made seems doable. In the automotive world wires are run for possible accessories, this also allows for upgrade kits after sale

[Dutch Star Don]

We did a factory tour of Monaco, Country Coach and Alpine Coach in 2004. At Monaco, they had a 45' long table with all sorts of pins and markings. Two women, took wiring and walked it from pin to pin until a complete harness was made for a particular length and model coach.