Community Forums

Random0 · 09-01-2021, 06:09 PM

Is there a certain year that all of these Def head issues are arising I have a 2013 Newmar with a ISX 600 Cummins but cannot find anywhere regarding problems with the heads. Any info at all would be appreciated. Thankyou. Random0

tom chelbana · 09-01-2021, 08:30 PM

This current DEF head issue is for 2016 and newer coaches with model built in the 2015 part of the problem. Quick review.
1 Keep DEF tank full with fluid
2 Wait to start the coach till all light are off on dash before starting
3 Purchase DEF that is the newest date code.
4 If in doubt drain the DEF tank and start with fresh fluid
5 Should test DEF fluid before putting in tank
6 Heat is a major problem with DEF fluid for both storage and in the tank
Newmar Man

R.Wold · 09-02-2021, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderRidge

Got the code today. Made it home to driveway. Needed to unload everything so I can figure out the next move. Has to be the sensor failing because if this is a DEF temperature issue then it’s definitely bad. Outside air temperature 73. Last night the temperatures were in the 50’s. Not sure how far I can drive it now that I shut it down. A Cummins/Spartan shop about 12 miles away. DW not happy. All I do is fix this coach. Not a single trip in the last four months without something broken. Now she said she’s done. The coach has got to go.

One thing to consider is that it may not be the DEF head but rather a stuck tank heater valve. Apparently when they fail, they stick in the open position. This will eventually heat your def tank to the engine coolant temperature. So it may be a simple fix and if so, you won’t be stuck waiting for a DEF head.

Since tank heating is a non-essential function over 12*F, you can safely block it off or add a manual valve if parts availability is an issue. You could also check the tank temp manually to see what is really going on - high def temp or a bad sensor.

Also I’ve read of several accounts of people being charged for emissions system repairs ($2500-5,000) while the emissions warranty (5 years, 100k miles) is still in effect, and I ran into the same situation during one of my repairs. I had to kind of jump up and down and wave my arms for them to admit it was covered. I don’t know if they honestly don’t know it’s a warranty issue, or of they are just trying to duck their responsibilities, but hold them to it.

I get where the DW is coming from but I would say don’t give up. Work the bugs out and you’ll have years of enjoyment out of the coach. I’ve had about 25,000 trouble free miles in the last year since getting on top of the emissions system. You can do it too.

ThunderRidge · 09-02-2021, 07:06 AM

The coach threw all three codes yesterday. SPN 3364/1761/3031 FMI 9. Made it to a heavy truck shop that is a Spartan chassis dealer and Cummins dealer. Same old story they gave me yesterday. Worldwide shortage of computer chips. No parts available now. Maybe in 3 weeks????

Random0 · 09-02-2021, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom chelbana

This current DEF head issue is for 2016 and newer coaches with model built in the 2015 part of the problem. Quick review.
1 Keep DEF tank full with fluid
2 Wait to start the coach till all light are off on dash before starting
3 Purchase DEF that is the newest date code.
4 If in doubt drain the DEF tank and start with fresh fluid
5 Should test DEF fluid before putting in tank
6 Heat is a major problem with DEF fluid for both storage and in the tank
Newmar Man

Thanks Newmar Man. Appreciate the quick response

jerryd13 · 09-02-2021, 01:16 PM

Friends and fellow RVR’s. Come on.

Their are many different manufacturers of engines and DEF systems.

You need to read more and not jump at these wuick fix solutions, as you may do more harm than good. Modt automatic transmisdions, ALLISON and others use the dpeed input to determine gear selections and other functionds. So when you disconnect the speedohmeter cable, how do you think this will work.???.

All DEF problems are not simply the do called HEAD, and do upu even know what the HEAD consists of. You can have level sendor issure,
FEF fluid quality isssue, NOX sensor failure, Gas flow sendor issue, DEF pump issue, DEF filter issue, ECM program issue, and more.

So, I encourage you to learn more from experts and not every yahoo who yells you these quick fixes.

I am learning all I can about my system, taken pictures from down below, gathered documents, and read these IRV2 postings, seperatr the good info. From the bad.
Most people who use fresh good DEF, and keep the level 1/2 to full, and don’t try any RUBE GOLDBERG design changes do fine.
9-1/2 years on this TIFFIN 2012.

Just trying to give you sound advice.
Jerryd13

tnedator · 09-02-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerryd13

Most people who use fresh good DEF, and keep the level 1/2 to full, and don’t try any RUBE GOLDBERG design changes do fine.
9-1/2 years on this TIFFIN 2012.

Just trying to give you sound advice.
Jerryd13

I don't believe the above is accurate. I think there are plenty of people, not to mention truckers, that put a lot of miles on their coach or truck, keep the def fresh and more than half full, and have had a failure.

You are lucky to be in an old enough coach that you don't have the newer EPA mandated components that are failing.

ThunderRidge · 09-02-2021, 05:05 PM

I use fresh DEF all the time and keep my tank full. So I threw all three codes and here I sit. Since Spartan, Cummins, Shaw doesn’t know then, I don’t think anyone of us knows either. The only true and simple solution would be to allow the emergency vehicle ECM to be installed on our coaches. That may or may not happen.

Gnewmarvt · 09-04-2021, 09:31 AM

I just went out to the barn this morning to do my monthly checks on batteries, exercise generator, start engine, etc.. When I turned the key and was waiting for all the lights to go out prior to starting. Upon starting the MIL light came on along with the DEF indicator light and a constant beeping. I happened to look at the other gauges and noticed the DEF fluid level indicator when from full to 1/4. I shut the engine down and checked the DEF tank to see how much was there. The level was about 3/4 on the tank. I went back and turned the key and the MIL light was still there along with the DEF light. I checked the fault codes and had the following: 3364, FM19; 1761, FM19; and 3031, FM19. My coach has only 3740.2 miles and 117 Engine hours. I have always kept fresh DEF, waited for lights to go out prior to starting, etc.. I have an appointment scheduled at a Cummins Coach Care Complete facility to take care of the Fuel Rail Recall and the Spartan Chassis Recall on Sept. 14th, along with annual maintenance on engine, generator and chassis. The Cummins Facility is a 3 1/2 hour drive from my home. Will I be able to do this or am I screwed and have to wait? This is our first Class A and I'm still learning about all the systems. We were supposed to leave to winter in Florida next month, so I hope you can provide some helpful guidance on how to proceed or any other options. Thanks

tnedator · 09-04-2021, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnewmarvt

I just went out to the barn this morning to do my monthly checks on batteries, exercise generator, start engine, etc.. When I turned the key and was waiting for all the lights to go out prior to starting. Upon starting the MIL light came on along with the DEF indicator light and a constant beeping. I happened to look at the other gauges and noticed the DEF fluid level indicator when from full to 1/4. I shut the engine down and checked the DEF tank to see how much was there. The level was about 3/4 on the tank. I went back and turned the key and the MIL light was still there along with the DEF light. I checked the fault codes and had the following: 3364, FM19; 1761, FM19; and 3031, FM19. My coach has only 3740.2 miles and 117 Engine hours. I have always kept fresh DEF, waited for lights to go out prior to starting, etc.. I have an appointment scheduled at a Cummins Coach Care Complete facility to take care of the Fuel Rail Recall and the Spartan Chassis Recall on Sept. 14th, along with annual maintenance on engine, generator and chassis. The Cummins Facility is a 3 1/2 hour drive from my home. Will I be able to do this or am I screwed and have to wait? This is our first Class A and I'm still learning about all the systems. We were supposed to leave to winter in Florida next month, so I hope you can provide some helpful guidance on how to proceed or any other options. Thanks

I think you need to be on the phone with Spartan first thing Monday and see about them having a mobile tech do the install. I think there is too big a chance that you will go into limp mode and require a tow. Not worth rolling the dice. They sent me a mobile tech, and I'm 2 hours from Cummins.

ThunderRidge · 09-04-2021, 12:24 PM

I second the mobile technician. I wouldn’t even think of that long a drive. I only had to go twelve miles and I was sweating it.

R.Wold · 09-04-2021, 12:24 PM

[QUOTE=tnedator;5901161]I think you need to be on the phone with Spartan first thing Monday and see about them having a mobile tech do the install. I think there is too big a chance that you will go into limp mode and require a tow. Not worth rolling the dice. They sent me a mobile tech, and I'm 2 hours from Cummins.[/QUOTE]

And if you can’t make that happen, don’t turn the key on (or hit the start button) until your ready to go - no unnecessary ignition cycles (I now believe this includes just turning on the ignition), don’t stop for fuel unless you absolutely have to, don’t idle any more than absolutely necessary and you should make it.

There are so many variables and I've read so much conflicting information, but those codes are just tank level, def quality and temp (so a bad def head) but if there are no other codes you aren’t in derate yet. You probably will be by the time you get there, but just the first stage which is barely noticeable unless pulling a grade or towing.

Ive driven around 100 miles, and 60 miles the two times I was in the first stage of derate. I didn’t like it but I made it. 3 1/2 hours sounds like around 200 miles so that’s more of a gamble, and some folks report immediately going straight to complete derate, so unless it’s absolutely necessary, I’d go with the mobile mechanic.

Gnewmarvt · 09-04-2021, 12:51 PM

Thanks tnedator, ThunderRidge and R.Wold for the helpful advice. After reading most of this threads posts I didn't know if I stood any chance at all of making it that distance. It is around 200 miles so I'll take the advice and call Spartan first thing Tuesday after the holiday and see what they say. I'll post back so others will have more information. Thanks again.

tnedator · 09-04-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnewmarvt

Thanks tnedator, ThunderRidge and R.Wold for the helpful advice. After reading most of this threads posts I didn't know if I stood any chance at all of making it that distance. It is around 200 miles so I'll take the advice and call Spartan first thing Tuesday after the holiday and see what they say. I'll post back so others will have more information. Thanks again.

Your 2019, like mine, should be covered by their 5 year warranty. I was still, barely, in the 3 year coachnet plan they give you, but I had just renewed, so that wouldn't have mattered.

They used coachnet to arrange the mobile tech. They know that there is a better than even chance they will wind up with a very expensive tow if you try that drive, so I would be nice, but firm, on your concern about going into limp mode on that trip.