Community Forums

R.Wold · 10-24-2021, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingcash

2016 4369 DS on a FL Chassis- My chassis manufacturing date was Dec 2015 and as I understand, the new EPA rules for DEF quality sensing was just being established in 2016 and effecting 2017 chassis production...any other information on this would be nice and helpful. Cheers !!!

yours could go either way. The change to include the quality sensor was for the 2016 model year. My chassis was built in May of 2015 and apparently got in under the wire.

A couple ways to determine which you have:

If you have easy access to your coach take a look at the connector to your DEF head (header in Freightliner speak) - if its a flat four configuration, its pre-2016. If its a square arrangement, its post.

If you dont have easy access to your coach, call FL with your VIN (last 6digits) and get the part number for your DEF header and use that to make the determination. The quick and easy tell is a mechanical float vs electronic level sensing.

Pics: 1. Mechanical float DEF header, 2. flat four (also note the four pin connector in the first pic). Look at posts 544-549 for more discussion on, and pics of various connectors. 3. Changes for 2016 SCR system design.

tom chelbana · 10-25-2021, 01:08 PM

The 7 series DEF head from Shaw looks like is working.
Newmar Man

flyingcash · 10-26-2021, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Wold

yours could go either way. The change to include the quality sensor was for the 2016 model year. My chassis was built in May of 2015 and apparently got in under the wire.

A couple ways to determine which you have:

If you have easy access to your coach take a look at the connector to your DEF head (header in Freightliner speak) - if its a flat four configuration, its pre-2016. If its a square arrangement, its post.

If you dont have easy access to your coach, call FL with your VIN (last 6digits) and get the part number for your DEF header and use that to make the determination. The quick and easy tell is a mechanical float vs electronic level sensing.

Pics: 1. Mechanical float DEF header, 2. flat four (also note the four pin connector in the first pic). Look at posts 544-549 for more discussion on, and pics of various connectors. 3. Changes for 2016 SCR system design.

Question- Is picture #1 what the plug looks like before or after the DEF Quality sensor was added ? This picture is of my plug...is it before or after the change ? Thanks !!!

R.Wold · 10-26-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingcash

Question- Is picture #1 what the plug looks like before or after the DEF Quality sensor was added ? This picture is of my plug...is it before or after the change ? Thanks !!!

Picture #1 is just the DEF head with the fixed half of the connector pictured - nothing attached. Its been pretty well conclusively determined that this version is not DSS compatible, but the good news is that its also less susceptible to failure (no qual sensor) and in the event of a DEF level sensor (float) failure, its its likely that it can be cleaned and reinstalled and will function and clear after 3 - 5 ignition cycles.

Your plug is the same as mine and is previous to the current version.

flyingcash · 10-26-2021, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Wold

Picture #1 is just the DEF head with the fixed half of the connector pictured - nothing attached. Its been pretty well conclusively determined that this version is not DSS compatible, but the good news is that its also less susceptible to failure (no qual sensor) and in the event of a DEF level sensor (float) failure, its its likely that it can be cleaned and reinstalled and will function and clear after 3 - 5 ignition cycles.

Your plug is the same as mine and is previous to the current version.

Wow !!! That is great news :-) Thanks so much for helping me figure this out...it is much appreciated !!!

R.Wold · 10-26-2021, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingcash

Question- Is picture #1 what the plug looks like before or after the DEF Quality sensor was added ? This picture is of my plug...is it before or after the change ? Thanks !!!

A little more on this - looking at a generic Dorman “DEF level sensor“ it has the same connector as the one we are discussing. That, and the TSB ( https://www.irv2.com/forums/attachme...2&d=1632818180 ) which lists 12v, ground, and resistance at various float levels, tells me that this connector is for the level sensor only.

It’s possible that the MEAS device on top is temp only (not confirmed) and since they both go into separate harnesses there is no single connector that could be used to install a DSS. It appears however that a simple resistor between the correct leads (based on the TSB) could override an errant level sensor. The resistance readings listed in the TSB can be used to select an appropriate resistor. I’ll probably experiment with this a bit.

flyingcash · 10-26-2021, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Wold

A little more on this - looking at a generic Dorman “DEF level sensor“ it has the same connector as the one we are discussing. That, and the TSB ( https://www.irv2.com/forums/attachme...2&d=1632818180 ) which lists 12v, ground, and resistance at various float levels, tells me that this connector is for the level sensor only.

I think we’ve determined that the MEAS device on top is probably temp only, and since they both go into separate harnesses there is no single connector that could be used to install a DSS. It appears however that a simple resistor between the correct leads (based on the TSB) could override an errant level sensor. The resistance readings listed in the TSB can be used to select an appropriate resistor. I’ll probably experiment with this a bit.

More really good information...let us know how your experiment went :-)

R.Wold · 10-26-2021, 12:05 PM

I know I’m veering off topic here, but trying to clarify applicability of the DSS for pre-2107 FL users:

I believe I’ve found the manufacturer of Freightliner’s “own proprietary” DEF header. FWIW, TE.com looks a whole lot more professional and legitimate than little ol’ Shaw Development down in Florida, although unless FL or Daimler owns TE Connectivity (doubtful), its hardy Freightliner’s own internal DEF header source as claimed elsewhere.

This is a page from the company that manufacturers the MEAS device on top of the header:

https://www.te.com/content/dam/te-co...S-TS-TE100.pdf .

Im in contact with them trying to get a little more info.

The one in the pic below (sorry I haven’t found a better one) looks very close to, if not identical to mine - FL part # A04-28402 (also identified in the TSB). The TE.com description does NOT include a quality sensor, as many of the others at that link do.

gatorstan · 10-11-2022, 04:36 PM

My 2014 Is in derate after I changed my def header and now it’s in the shop at Cummins and they say no power to the def heater any suggestions

Archer2 · 10-12-2022, 11:19 AM

Stan, the first thing is that “no power to the DEF heater” could mean a couple of different things. First is the heater for the DEF tank is just a coil of stainless steel tubing around the actual tank sensor that either has or doesn’t have hot engine coolant running through it depending on the temperature. There’s an ECM-controlled solenoid valve that opens and closes according to the temperature. If it is above 12F then it is not activated and therefore is irrelevant.
The second thing it could mean is that the DEF supply and return lines may have electrical heating elements built into the hoses like heat tape on a garden hose. There could be a problem with the relay that supplies power to those elements or with the elements themselves.
None of those things will cause a deration.
Can you be a little more specific as to what suggestions you are asking for? You say that you changed the DEF head. Do you mean you personally changed it or it that you had it changed by someone else? Why did it need to be changed? Are you sure you got the right part?
Also, you might not have noticed but the thread that you posted to and revived is about a year old. You might want to start a new thread.