Community Forums

woodosgood · 08-05-2017, 07:17 PM

Our coach is on the "population list" of the Newmar bulletin and we have an alignment scheduled with a Freightliner dealer in Jefferson, GA for later this month.

Something to keep in mind is that checking the alignment is on the 6 month maintenance checklist from Freightliner, but is not on the 12 month checklist.

We know some people skip the 6 month service because they use the chassis build date not the Newmar build date. Your chassis may have several months on it before Newmar builds a coach on it and gets it to your dealer.

We had our one year service performed by Freightliner in Gaffney, SC during a Camp Freightliner class and they did not check the alignment and we were not aware of this issue at that time so we missed our chance to have it addressed earlier.

Rd1 · 08-06-2017, 07:25 AM

On another threat, a helpful forum member had posted this link.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

perhaps other members may want to add their alignment/tag experience issues to help their fellow owners who may not be aware of this issue.

For those of you who may wonder why I persist in raising this issue, I have no ill wish on FCCC. If any, we need more of them to improve the competition. However, this problem likely has to do with a few managers who are responsible for this defective production/design which was rushed to the market before it was sorted out. They figured, with their resources, they can hide behind coach/bus builders and DTNA resources and pass their problems to the consumer. There is no justification for this. If you have any doubts about the extend of the shenanigans some of these individuals are willing to do, you can read a few pages of the following court document to understand why these individuals should be held to account.

http://www.appliedantitrust.com/05_c..._1_15_2013.pdf

This conspiracy ended with some $500M anti-trust judgment. I do not know what portion was DTNA/FCCC, however, if they can afford ~ $500M, they can certainly afford a recall for a few thousand passive steer tag chassis.

Carefree · 08-06-2017, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rd1

On another threat, a helpful forum member had posted this link.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

perhaps other members may want to add their alignment/tag experience issues to help their fellow owners who may not be aware of this issue.

For those of you who may wonder why I persist in raising this issue, I have no ill wish on FCCC. If any, we need more of them to improve the competition. However, this problem likely has to do with a few managers who are responsible for this defective production/design which was rushed to the market before it was sorted out. They figured, with their resources, they can hide behind coach/bus builders and DTNA resources and pass their problems to the consumer. There is no justification for this. If you have any doubts about the extend of the shenanigans some of these individuals are willing to do, you can read a few pages of the following court document to understand why these individuals should be held to account.

http://www.appliedantitrust.com/05_c..._1_15_2013.pdf

This conspiracy ended with some $500M anti-trust judgment. I do not know what portion was DTNA/FCCC, however, if they can afford ~ $500M, they can certainly afford a recall for a few thousand passive steer tag chassis.

We now have the same tire wear on our passenger tag. The tire looks as if it was bouncing down the road and only made contact with the road every few mili seconds. We stopped at a Freightliner facility in Casper, WY. These guys were really awesome. They got us in right away, analyzed the problem, got FCCC to pay for alignment and a new tire. Only problem was that there was no facility in Casper that had the equipment to do the alignment.

We now have an appointment in Billings, MT this Wednesday to get the alignment done. Hopefully that'll be the end of the story.

Btw, the Freightliner techs in Casper also adjusted our ride height, as this was off too.

The Casper facility is " Jack's truck and equipment". Highly recommend them.

wagonmaster2 · 08-06-2017, 09:41 PM

Reading all the problems with the passive steer tag axle I was wondering if the benefits of it are really worth all the seemingly headaches. Has anyone had the standard tag and then gone to the passive steer?

redbaron73 · 08-06-2017, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

Reading all the problems with the passive steer tag axle I was wondering if the benefits of it are really worth all the seemingly headaches. Has anyone had the standard tag and then gone to the passive steer?

Agree. I wonder if a standard tag will become an option in the future.

Rd1 · 08-08-2017, 01:19 PM

Tag steer does have its application and can be very beneficial. Passive steer dose have room for improvements. Freightliner's passive steer is considerably inferior to the spartan, if you were to observe both bare chassis side by side.

The problem here is. the new big corporate belief in too big to fail. In that, they have socialized their losses while privatizing their profits, at our expense. You see, FCCC/DTNA are well aware of their problem. However, so long as they can get away with it, they'll let their customers pay for the short comings of their product. Furthermore, their passive steer system is not very robust and one has to see how well it holds up when you add up some miles of usage.

Now a days, corporate responsibility can mainly be checked with ordinary people holding the corporation to account. Just remember, there are a whole lot more of us. Otherwise, their abuses will only get worst, if they are given a free pass.

I encourage those who have had issues with their freightliner tag axles to share their experiences with nhtsa. It will have an impact. This is not just for the benefit of others who may not be aware of this issue. Also, for the very fact that Daimler has PLENTY of resources and the know how, to fix the problem and considerably improve the tag steer chassis technology. That would be beneficial to every one, even FCCC/DTNA. There are significant number of these freightliner chassis with the problem. Otherwise, why would they not issue a recall? Or even an advisory, rather than hiding it. Investing some $$ to fix the problem vs a many more $$$ in a potential class action suit, is a no brainer. Unfortunately, some corporate people are incapable of making such decisions, unless they are held to account. A simple result of a too big of a head, with very little brain.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

ptw · 08-09-2017, 09:48 AM

You make a very good point about the alignment on the 6 month inspection. I thought I read somewhere that the difference the between the 6 month and the 12 month was the oil change. I was surprised to look at the inspection sheets and see that you are correct.

We went to Gaffney for service at 6 months (9 months since chassis build) and had the 1 year service done. I said we also wanted an alignment check, only because we always get an alignment on a new coach. The front toe and the tag axle needed to be adjusted. The alignment was listed as warranty work on the invoice and there was no charge.

Paul
2017 Dutch Star 4018

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodosgood

Our coach is on the "population list" of the Newmar bulletin and we have an alignment scheduled with a Freightliner dealer in Jefferson, GA for later this month.

Something to keep in mind is that checking the alignment is on the 6 month maintenance checklist from Freightliner, but is not on the 12 month checklist.

We know some people skip the 6 month service because they use the chassis build date not the Newmar build date. Your chassis may have several months on it before Newmar builds a coach on it and gets it to your dealer.

We had our one year service performed by Freightliner in Gaffney, SC during a Camp Freightliner class and they did not check the alignment and we were not aware of this issue at that time so we missed our chance to have it addressed earlier.

Rd1 · 08-10-2017, 07:22 PM

For owners to followup the OEM's recommended maintenance routine (6 mo alignment, etc) is certainly our responsibility and should be followed. In my case, the tag tire was destroyed in only 3500 mi and less than 3 weeks of ownership!. Inside corner thread was completely shaved off!. This was from the coach delivered from newmar to Minnesota, where I p/u and driven back to ohio, where 2 weeks later was driven to newmar for an already scheduled service. I had planned my service prior to delivery, in lieu of factory p/u. Had I not noticed the wandering on the very day I p/u the coach from Minnesota and called FCCC to check alignment, this would have blown in no time with considerable damage.

Prior to newmar visit, I already had visited a freightliner dealer for an alignment. They missed the tag axle off and the tire damage, and they failed to fix the wandering!!!! at the time I was not aware of this tag axle problem. At newmar, the tire damage was discovered. The coach was sent to another place for alignment and tag tire replacement. This place too, missed the tag off center issue, among other problems! Why, I do not know. It was the third place (in two moths) that finally discovered the tag off center, tag alignment off, the plungers were off too. Drive axle not true to chassis, the steer toe off. The drive axle not true to the chassis is also a common problem with freightliners. This place too, failed to resolve the wandering problem. Same failure with all six attempts in alignment. Frankly, I'd not be surprised, if some of the other so called repaired chassis, may still experience some wandering without the operator recognizing it, specially, if they use the comfort drive in its higher settings.

These are a reflection of a flawed production line. Freightliner knew this problem from early 2015. Yet they continued their defective production knowingly and willfully, for more than two years . If we, ordinary people are supposed to be responsible and be held to account, shouldn't the corp people also be responsible citizens? Or, are they above the law? Even after the production problem, freightliner could have removed their defective chassis and fixed them before delivery to coach/bus builders. A layman could observe the chassis with tag axle mounted off center!!!!! why did freightliner ignore this too? To fix the problems on a bare chassis, wold have been much easier than after the coach build. However, fccc CHOSE to ignore this opportunity as well, knowingly and willfully. After newmar builds the coach, they too are supposed to have an alignment performed. Yet, newmar failed in that too! It is not clear when newmar found out. They certainly new by aug of 2016. Likely much earlier than that. Newmar also has the responsibility to publish another PIB for 2017 models. Yet, they will not issue one. Newmar tells me, they can not issue any recall/PIBs unless the OEM issues the call. So, why is freightliner ignoring the problem yet again? There certainly are many 2017s with same problem. There are many freightliner chassis with this problem (and other issues as well, will discuss later). This is likely why a few key decision makers at frieghtliner attempting to white wash their own shortcomings, while covering their backs at our expense.

For the latest casualty, see this post;
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/pass...-342938-3.html

and, unfortunately, there will be more. One hopes, no one will end up in an accident or gets injured. For those considering a new unit, please do your home works. .. and this is not the only problem with this chassis.

And for those who own one, how many more of these would you like to see to accept freightliner has a problem and they have been hiding it? further, do you think being politically correct is the responsible thing to do?

Barmats · 08-10-2017, 08:49 PM

I posted this inadvertently in the wrong thread... meant to post it here:

Our coach is the latest casualty of this issue. Arrived at Newmar last night with a short list of unrelated repair items, and this morning noticed the driver's side tag tire was totally bald as the coach was leaving for service. Pieces of the steel belt are sticking up in the air, the tread area is shaved totally bald, and there are flat spots at the edge around the entire circumference of the tire every 10" or so. I have never seen anything like this before.

The coach has to be driven to Freightliner in South Bend, and cannot get in until sometime next week so this will become an extended repair visit. Newmar said they have seen this one time before. Our production number is not listed in the PIB but the production date is April 2016.

We were lucky this was discovered before we hit the road again. There can't be more than a few miles left before the tire blows, which would have been quite bad for the rear fender area, some engine parts as well as our Mini Cooper toad. We are the original owners with just over 8,000 miles on the coach.

Rd1 · 08-11-2017, 05:32 AM

Glad you caught this..

If you are going to Hill truck, they should know all the flaws. If not, please make sure they check the drive axle. some are not true to the chassis. If so, make sure all 4 tires for the drive are replaced.

Once they set the tag, they need to make sure the plungers are set properly.
Also check the front alignment.

Your DS front tires would not have the following issue. For those with MA, LA, EX units, they should keep an eye on their front tire corners wear and possible tire wall separation. It is not clear if this problem is a Michelin defect or a freightlner defect. Michelin is evaluating the tires.

and please consider sharing your experience at NHTSA, for yourself and the benefit of others. You can also upload pictures.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

GKU · 08-11-2017, 06:53 AM

Was in Gaffney this past week for 12-Month service. I did not know about the tag issue, however, they checked the serial number and then found the tag was out. They moved it into the proper position and then aligned everything. I was lucky...no tire damage/wear.

sbahrns · 08-11-2017, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKU

Was in Gaffney this past week for 12-Month service. I did not know about the tag issue, however, they checked the serial number and then found the tag was out. They moved it into the proper position and then aligned everything. I was lucky...no tire damage/wear.

I had service done at Gaffney in May and they told me my tag was out of alignment. I had no idea of a potential problem at the time. We have 18,000 miles on the coach now and tire wear seems to be normal. This whole thing seems crazy. I would think if mine was out of alignment since I took delivery in October of 2015 it would show unusual tire wear. Maybe it has to do with the degree to which the tag is out of align.

Carefree · 08-11-2017, 07:29 AM

See my previous post on our damaged tag tire. Yesterday we had the alignment done and all axles, not only the tag, were out of alignment. It's clear that Freightliner does not do an alignment on their chassis when it leaves their factory and neither does Newmar before they ship the coach to their customers.

sbahrns · 08-11-2017, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbahrns

I had service done at Gaffney in May and they told me my tag was out of alignment. I had no idea of a potential problem at the time. We have 18,000 miles on the coach now and tire wear seems to be normal. This whole thing seems crazy. I would think if mine was out of alignment since I took delivery in October of 2015 it would show unusual tire wear. Maybe it has to do with the degree to which the tag is out of align.

I stand corrected. I went over to the storage lot and checked the tires again. There is slight wear on the outside edge of the driver's side tag tire. The passenger side seems fine, but the outside drive wheel tire on the passenger side seems to have a little premature wear. It's not noticeable by casually looking at it, but a close inspection shows some wear.