Shore Power Issues

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

Renee...the main reason I posted was to put the idea of checking for low voltage into the memory banks of other memebers on here. I was disappointed in myself, that it took so long to discover the issue, when it was staring me in the face. It's one of those things I won't miss again. I looked in the power bay today, trying to identufy a spot for the new monitor. There is a black pastic panel, stairng you ringt in the face, that covers the slide mechanism. I think I'm going to mount it right in that cover.

Regarding changing sites....that's easier said than done on a Holiday weekend and the campground is full. I did check a couple of empty sites, but they had even older electrical and the same issue. I still think their problem is the flooding they had in the past (like corroded grounds).

Hi Don-


I think more likely is corrosion of the neutral. Your observation up-thread about voltage varying between L1 & L2 is a clue. They should be within a couple of volts of each other. If L1 is 104v and L2 is 128v, the neutral has a poor connection at a panel or at the pedestal, or elsewhere in the park/CG distribution system. If you can see the voltages yo-yo back and forth, that's related to the line loading from other units in the park or CG and points to likely corrosion as well a possible distribution design deficiencies.



Typically anything that's been underwater is replaced or at least reterminated to "fresh" conductor metal. It can't be assumed that stuff will work correctly, indefinitely, simply because it gets dry eventually.

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

We're staying at a local RV park for the Thanksgiving week with our kids. We have full hookups with 50 amp shore power. Yesterday morning we woke up to our shore power off, "No Service" was showing on our Precision Circuits monitor in the front overhead. I checked a few things inside and then went outside to check the shore power.....of course it was raining. The circuit breaker was on, the LED on the power cord was lit and the two red lights on the transfer switch were illuminated.

I'm sure as many have experienced, some aggravation set in and I was getting frustrated. I crawled in the pass thru bay and found no issues with the inverter circuit breaker.

My next step was to start the generator and see if I had power. The power came on right away with the generator running. Now, I'm starting to think transfer switch. I give it a whack and still no power. I pulled the plug from the power post and plugged into the site next to me. The power came on and I thought it was a post issue, but a few minutes later, the power shut down.

Still aggravated and not thinking this through, I pulled out the manual for the SurgeGuard transfer switch. After reading the first few lines and what the unit protects, it dawned on me....low voltage. During all of this, the power to the coach turned on and off a few times.

So....once it went back on, I checked the voltage on line one (L1) and line two (L2). They were both low. I leave an LED voltage indicator plugged into an outlet in the living area that I check every so often. Sure enough, it was fluctuating between 99-102 volts.

Good thing I figured it out, as "Stuart W", was about to get a Thanksgiving morning call.....he's my go to guy with power issues.

I'm posting this for all of those with the SurgeGuard transfer switch with coach protection, a popular option available on the Newmar coaches. It sure would of been handy to have a remote panel on the power reel bay door, like my last coach. I started checking and found that you can buy a remote for my model (listed below).

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ansfer-switch/

Here is the information that the Precision Circuits panel provides at the front of the coach. In the photo, you can see the voltage is okay now (middle of the day) but was terrible in the morning.

Attachment 268256
Lastly, I kept having to run in and out of the coach to see what the power was doing on the above panel. When I read the Manual for the transfer switch, it kept referring to the remote panel. Well....Newmar doesn't provide/install a remote panel. I checked online and found the panel and the cord (you have to buy the cord separately) sell for about $115.00 for both. I like having the panel mounted to my cord reel door so I can immediately see what the power is doing when I connect. There is an exterior plug on the transfer switch, so adding the panel is plug and play. Here is the panel on Amazon. I ordered one today.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Glad you have it figured out, you can call me anytime. I have the remote that I simply zip tied to a conduit near the cord reel, it takes one phone line connection. I also now run a external inline surge guard that diagnoses the Pedestal prior to plugging in the coach.

[flyboy013]

I’ve had a similar problem several time this Fall, but in my case the issue was high voltage. The power would cut out and its not always immediately obvious as to why. The high limit on the SurgeGaurd is 132 volts, but I’ve found that the voltage that’s it’s reporting over the RV-C network is high by about 3 volts, so it’s shutting off power when the shore voltage exceeds 129 volts. It’s on my list to contact Southwire about the issue.

[Dutch Star Don]

Originally Posted by firedoc

Your transfer switch didn’t prevent the damage, the Progressive Industries unit did!

"firedoc".....Newmar installs a SurgeGuard transfer switch, which is a combo unit. It also provides the protection. It's called a Surge Guard* 50A – Model 40350-RVC Automatic Transfer Switch RVC Compatible with Full RV Power Protection.

My previous coach had a standard transfer switch and I added a Progressive Industries unit after purchase. The SurgeGuard model is an option Newmar offers. I also use a SurgeGuard portable at the shore plug, so if there's a power surge, I hopefully lose just the inexpensive surge protector.

[Dutch Star Don]

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy

Hi Don-


I think more likely is corrosion of the neutral. Your observation up-thread about voltage varying between L1 & L2 is a clue. They should be within a couple of volts of each other. If L1 is 104v and L2 is 128v, the neutral has a poor connection at a panel or at the pedestal, or elsewhere in the park/CG distribution system. If you can see the voltages yo-yo back and forth, that's related to the line loading from other units in the park or CG and points to likely corrosion as well a possible distribution design deficiencies.

Typically anything that's been underwater is replaced or at least reterminated to "fresh" conductor metal. It can't be assumed that stuff will work correctly, indefinitely, simply because it gets dry eventually.

Electrical is not my strong point, but I'm guessing you're right. I'm not a fan of this campground and only went there because we had seven other family and friends rigs there for the holiday. I won't go there again. The staff is not friendly and last time they flooded, people waited months for refunds. The problem.....most people (not in all electric coaches or no onboard protection) no that the power is bad, so no complaints.

[sibe]

I dont do many RV parks at all but from what I do see is they are dated in wiring.... Many are in places where "code" is barely skirted....

Friends tell me some are perfect others are not worth plugging into, use genny on the cheaper site, better off..

Being from an electrical back ground I spot this poor distribution at first glance but 98% of all you RV's just want to pull in and enjoy and that how should be...

I was never a fan or saw the need for the surge,ems etc devices.. since my RV use is non typical park going....

Reading more and more I am like "duh" yep those devices can help...

This past summer I ran into the power drain at a private area.. I small 4000+ acre private farm/hunting/recreation area. Owners had started to repurpose the family plot to allow outside use and enjoyment while they could make a few dollars...

Back in the days 70s.. They had a few campsites for friends and hunters... A couple pavillions for group events.. One could spot a few Electrical Panel boxes with underground 20amp wire spidered around.
I noticed his 10 or so RV Sites had New modern 50 Amp set ups , actually double connections on each site.. as he mentioned, this is so when my Site guys decide to have a buddy show up and squeeze in ..... good thinking..

There was A Pile of the late 80s system with 30 amp plugs that got torn out.. I said you could not salvage any of the 30A for basic or the buddy set up.. He said NO. they pulled that stuff off the old 70's panels..
The owners said these 10 sites and hooking up the pavillions and some future spotting of power cost well over 100K.. Geez, ROI for just electric is a long haul, plus he did septics..

He did leave a few 100Amp old school panels around, the spider under grounds, cut off.. He left 6 - 20amp out door outlets on each. A small pop up or tenter could enjoy basics or a band could set up etc...

I was stuck using a 20AMP with my Minnie Winnie.. Hotest week inn 5 years.. 100+ index .. The old 15K AC was on 24/7 .. Well after one nite I melted the outlet even with my custom double plug.. They only had 15Amp recpts on a 20A breaker,,
I replaced that recept for him, had spares in RV.. YeaH I am wacky..
I was able to use my split adapter cord with each of the 2 plugs into 2 circuits o the same phase of the panel.. (electrical tester required not to get 220 and a short)

Not recommended but my 6 day stay was chilling.. I did leave Fridge on propane as not to tax the old system even though I had enough shared amperage from 2 20 amps.


Long read I know and not relevant but just another power story...

[PandS]

This is a much more widespread problem than most people realize. We ran into this multiple times on our 15,000 mile trek around the country, Canada, and Alaska over the past 6 months. A couple places were so unusable we just unplugged, ran the generator and moved on the next day.


This is the dark side to owning a modern, all electric coach, but, we wouldn't have it any other way. -Paul

[FatChance]

We just went through this as well. We have been at the same RV park in Flagstaff while DW finishes her contract at the local hospital. Last summer our hard wired 50A Surge Guard EMS disconnected us quite a bit, especially on weekends when the park was full and everyone was running their air conditioners. The voltage would drop and the EMS shut us down when it went below 102v. When that happened, I just ran the generator for the evening.

Then I recently noticed we were getting disconnected several times each night when the park wasn't full and no one was running their A/Cs. Our transfer switch is in the basement under the bed so we could hear it whenever we lost shore power. When I checked the power at the pedestal, the voltage was fluctuating and one leg would be around 110v and the other leg would be about 131v. Now we were shutting down when that one leg would go above 132v. One time we were disconnected for 45 minutes, though usually just for 3-4 minutes.

I complained to the park owner several times but he said no one else was complaining and the problem usually occurred at night and not during the day so I could not show him the bad voltage. Of course, no one else I spoke with had a EMS or monitored their voltage.

He finally called in a good electrician and we ruled out our coach, our pedestal and the main subpanel. I finally found a long-termer who said his EMS disconnected him so often he just bypassed it. This confirmed that the problem was widespread.

The electrician got the power company involved and after several visits, they showed up one day and installed a new transformer and the problem went away. They would not let us know what problems they found in their system so we don't know what the problem was caused by.

With all of the disconnections over time, each disconnect would get our inverter going, draining the batteries. When the power came back, the batteries would go into 14.4v bulk and absorption charging cycles each time and that high charging voltage over time, several times every day, fnally wore out our batteries . Right now, at the electrician's suggestion, I have a claim in to the power company to reimburse us for the four new house batteries I installed 2 weeks ago.

All of my complaining got the park to have their electrical supply upgraded by the power company at no cost to the owner because the problem was with the power company's wiring.

As said, this type of problem is much more common than most people think. Don't be without a surge protector/EMS.

[Dutch Star Don]

This is the issue with low power...... the average RVer, with a trailer, pulls in and has no issues. They're only running a battery changer, microwave and TV. They don't see/feel the issue. When you complain, they point to all the trailers and say your nuts. Even if you show them the issue, they don't want it advertised and try to ignore it....it's a big expense to correct.

[firedoc]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

"firedoc".....Newmar installs a SurgeGuard transfer switch, which is a combo unit. It also provides the protection. It's called a Surge Guard* 50A – Model 40350-RVC Automatic Transfer Switch RVC Compatible with Full RV Power Protection.

My previous coach had a standard transfer switch and I added a Progressive Industries unit after purchase. The SurgeGuard model is an option Newmar offers. I also use a SurgeGuard portable at the shore plug, so if there's a power surge, I hopefully lose just the inexpensive surge protector.

Thank you for that information. Serves me right for barging into a Newmar discussion.🥴

[PaulTNaples]

Originally Posted by LJowdy

Hi Don, Maybe you should post the name of the RV park so someone else doesn't have to go through the same issues as you. Personally I'd ask for a partial refund as they sold you the site which included the electricity.

I installed a Progressive Industries surge protector between the hose reel and the Sureguard transfer switch. The Progressive has a digital line voltage readout built in so when I plug into a power pedestal I can immediately see voltage on both power legs.

The good thing to know is the Transfer switch prevented potential damage from low voltage.

Plus 1 for this comment. I do the same procedure. It’s worth the extra dollars to have the Progressive at the power post. I get an immediate read on the power before the transfer switch kicks in.

[10 fan]

I ordered the remote before I picked up the coach as it looked like a good option. Mounted mine above the drivers seat. I like that it shows fault history. After I inverted the hole coach that shows me I have shore power as the EMS now shows me inverter voltage going thru the panel with no shore power.

[Ken C]

We had the same issue last Saturday evening at Pacific Coast Village. Of course during fairly heavy rain. The generator started even though the light on the plug was on as well as the 2 lights on the transfer switch. I shut the Gen down, but it restarted shortly so I just let it run for an hour or so B4 shutting it down again. Power reconnected and stayed connected until we left Sunday. While I did not verify it was due to high/low voltage, I assume it was. We have been to PCV many times and never had a power issue until this visit on the 7th day. Perhaps related to the storm? No issues Sunday through today on the 50AMP service at our daughter's house. Thanks DS Don for the Remote Display information. I ordered one today.

[Dutch Star Don]

I got mine today UPS. I ordered the display and the cable. OMG.....I wasn't paying attention.....the cable is 50' long and the size of an extension cord. I just needed enough to mount it 18" away. I called SurgeGuard and they said it was the only length they offered but it was an RJ12 6 wire "straight" data cable. I think it's what Magnum uses. I'm on the hunt for a shorter cable. I may even have one.

Okay, I found this on Amazon...https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Feet-Cab...106173422&th=1