Surge Protector / Regulator In-line Sequence

[jigsup]

I am preparing to install an Progressive EMS-HW50C and an Hughes Autoformer in my new Dutch Star. I have read many threads on iRV2 forum as to the benefits of having both the surge protector and the voltage regulator. The conflict and disagreement surrounds the in-line order in which they are installed. I would like to solicit feedback on my takeaway from the various opinions expressed.

Argument #1
Pedestal - Progressive Surge Protector - Hughes Autoformer - Transfer Switch

Argument #2
Pedestal - Hughes Autoformer - Progressive Surge Protector - Transfer Switch

Most in favor of placing the surge protector first, do so to offer the Autoformer protection by the surge protector from pedestal power spikes. One poster said he personally fried two Autoformers because they were placed in front of the surge protector. He now insists the Autoformer be placed in-line after the Progressive EMS.

Those in favor of placing the Autoformer before the Progressive EMS argue that is the recommendation of the manufacturer, Hughes. In fact, the Autoformer is designed specifically to plug directly into the pedestal, and the coach's power cord plugged into the Autoformer.

Here is my takeaway; mind you I am as about as much of a novice as there could possibly be:

Of the two components, the single most critical component to protecting the coach is the Progressive EMS surge protector. The value of the Hughes Autoformer is to provide consistent, quality voltage by enhancing the voltage 10% in low voltage supply situations.

Although I understand the argument to protect the Autoformer by placing it after the surge protector, it seems to me, in low voltage situations, the surge protector could shut down power before the Autoformer has a chance to regulate the voltage by 10%. On the other hand - if the Autoformer is placed first, the voltage going to the surge protector is going to have already been sanitized (for lack of a better term), enabling the most consistently even and adequate voltage for the surge protector to read and act upon.

I realize the Autoformer would be at risk by placing it first in-line, but the Autoformer costs $$$, the motorhome costs $$$,$$$. I am willing to eat the cost to replace the Autoformer, if the quality of electricity going into the surge protector, which ultimately is protecting my coach, is enhanced.

Regardless, of the sequence in which I install the two components, it is my intention to utilize a series of plugs and receptacles, rather than hard-wire the installation. That way if either unit fails, I can unplug and bypass without losing power all together.

I welcome your feedback and recommendations.

Thanks,

Jigs

[palehorse89]

Hello Jigs, If you have search and studied up on your question on here, you have seen my posts and my reasons for what is on the "Battle line" and what is behind it getting protected, due to its cost and weight to ship for repairs......
If you have not read them, I am #1 in your post above........been wired like this for 5 years now without one single problem, and my surge guard has shut down my Coach several time due to low voltage..........Good luck in your decision.

[GaryKD]

Hi jigsup,
Count me in the #1 group. I lost two voltage regulators doing #2. Once fooled and twice a fool. Never again. Been connected via #1 for quite a few years. It works for me and I'm no longer spending $s replacing voltage regulators. Believe me it gets old.

[PanJH]

I figured having the surge protector first in line and then the autoformer would be best to protect the autoformer. ... but when I talked to Hughes, they said put the autoformer in line first. Their reasoning was that is the surge protector determined low voltage, nothing would be passed to the autoformer and thus nothing to the coach. If the autoformer was first, it would boost the voltage and pass it to the surge protector and into the coach.
So with #1 in your post, you get protection for the autoformer, but possibility of no power in low voltage situations ( and I've had many of them in older parks during the summer months)... with #2, you have the possibility of frying the autoformer, but will have voltage in your coach in low voltage situations after bening boosted by the autoformer.
I went with #2, and wired the components with 50 amp plugs/receptacles so that if the autoformer did get fried, I just unplug it from the circuit and I'm good to go til I get it repaired.

[Planocat]

I'm in the #2 camp..... But I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in years!

[spinn]

I too am in the number 2 camp. I am using the TRC voltage regulator. Their instructions state their product first then the surge protector. While I was researching my purchase I though that the Hughes Autoformer had internal surge protection as part of its design?

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by spinn

I too am in the number 2 camp. I am using the TRC voltage regulator. Their instructions state their product first then the surge protector.

The instructions also suggest that you put a Model 44270 in front of the voltage regulator -- right off the power pedestal. The 44270 is just an expensive LED fault indicator -- like you buy in a hardware store to plug into home outlets. The 44270 just indicates faults and does not protect by disconnecting.

Originally Posted by spinn

While I was researching my purchase I though that the Hughes Autoformer had internal surge protection as part of its design?

Hughes autoformers have basic surge protection, but I think they used to recommend that a surge protector be used.

But this is a moot point -- I think Hughes just went out of business.

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

But this is a moot point -- I think Hughes just went out of business.

Hughes is still around -- their web site was off line for a while.

[FlyingDiver]

If you NEED an Autoformer (due to low pedestal voltage), then it has to be connected directly to the pedestal (#2 above). If the pedestal voltage isn't low, then you don't need the Autoformer at all, and the EMS-HW50C is all you need. There's no point to #1 above at all, the Autoformer isn't doing anything for you.

[flaggship1]

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver

If you NEED an Autoformer (due to low pedestal voltage), then it has to be connected directly to the pedestal (#2 above). If the pedestal voltage isn't low, then you don't need the Autoformer at all, and the EMS-HW50C is all you need. There's no point to #1 above at all, the Autoformer isn't doing anything for you.

X2 - I don't have a Hughes - have a Power Master VC50 and PI behind that. The Power Master has the same surge protection level as the PI SP. So it can take a hit and I assume the Hughes can too. So my question is - what's killing the autoformers / regulators? I can understand the Hughes suggestion to put a "test station" in front of the Hughes. That's why I built one - but just test before hooking up - for ground - neutral - fake 50 -

If the post passes then I put the tester up - and plug in.

VC 50 first - the portable PI 50 - both strapped in to the electric bay - original power cord cut and plugs added to allow plug and play. Do your visual inspections - and PMI (preventive maintenance). Works for me.

YMMV

[Dr4Film]

My setup is exactly like Flaggship1 including the exact same devices and the same order in which they are wired into the shore power supply to the coach.

Shore cord first, PowerMaster VC-50 second, Progressive Industries EMS HW-50C third and ESCO Lyght Transfer Switch.

I have had it that way since April 2010 without any difficulties. On rare instances I have had to unplug the VC-50 and take it off line when the local power supply voltage was too high. My VC-50 is an older version versus the VC-50 that Flaggship1 owns. His unit will sense when the incoming voltage gets to 125 at which time it will stop boosting whereas my unit will boost continuously.

I have had to do that maybe at three different locations since 2010.

I have also been places where others around me were sitting without air conditioning whereas my A/C's were pounding out the cold air, they never stopped. They had to wait until the Park voltage came back up to the threshold where their EMS HW-50C would allow the power into the coach.

Each RV owner has the right to choose which method works best for them. I prefer to have my A/C's running and stay comfortable when the demand for power is at its greatest usually when everyone has their A/C's running full bore.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[GaryKD]

Those in favor of #2 sometimes make it sound like the voltage regulator has nothing to do when behind the surge protector. Before determining what one wants to do, take a look at the specs of the voltage regulator and the surge protector. One will see that the voltage regulator is busy boosting voltage (if required) long before the surge protector cuts power to the coach.

The reason voltage regulator manufactures recommend their box be first is to provide a maximum amount of voltage regulation before the surge protector cuts power to the coach. Following #1, I loose about 4 to 7 volts of range that the voltage regulator could accommodate but the surge protector will cut power first. For me, this is okay.

The bottom line if one, knowing the risks, is needing the maximum voltage range offered by the regulator then it should come first. I'll take the surge protector first and accept the slightly reduced range of voltage regulation.

[palehorse89]

Set up like #1.......Park voltage is down to 104 VAC.........My equipment is running at 114.4 VAC..........That is just about as low as I care to operate my equipment at. When the park voltage drops 1 more volt.......surge guard shuts the Coach down....when shut down.....the Coach was down to 103 VAC and running on 113 VAC, 113 is way low enough for me to be put on notice that there is a power problem that needs investigated..........As always.......what ever lets you sleep at night and works for you......if we all did things the same..........not sure what this world would be like?

[Planocat]

Whatever floats your boat. No right or wrong way if it makes you comfortable. I figure the manufacturers of the add on equipment know better than I do, so I follow their suggested hookups.
During my time in Canada, the biggest campground issue I deal with is low voltage, being near the end of the line on a 30 amp pedestal. I am more comfortable with the Power Master/EMS/Transfer Switch hookup. Wish we had 50 amp with consistent voltage..... But that isn't the reality of what I deal with. My setup comes from Dr4Film's advice of a couple years back and It has been battlefield tested.