Surge Protectors

[1stimerveer]

Originally Posted by 1stimerveer

I'm inclined to agree.. We have a 30 amp system with built in Progressive EMS which covers High & low voltage, along with wiring faults and surge..

Replacing the surge circuit after a major surge in a hard wired or pedestal mounted Progressive unit will take time. I can see where adding a sacrificial surge protector at the pedestal would protect the EMS, assuming the surge doesn't take out both EMS and surge units simultaneously..

You know what they say.. You never know!!

Safe travels and all the best..

You guys convinced me to do a little home work..

After checking out the various surge protectors on-line, I discovered a number of surge protectors for less than $60.

Considering that I bought my built in progressive unit for close to $300, (it has protected my equipment during low voltage conditions) it would seem to me to be a no brainer.. Replacing a low cost sacrificial surge protector would most definitely be preferable to waiting for round trip shipping of my built-in Progressive industries for repair.

Safe travels and all the best

[mahdi]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

I use an external surge protector for the following:
I plug it into the pedestal and check that all legs are as the should be before plugging in the coach
The external surge protector protects the cord and cord real contacts.

I leave my power cord plugged into the surge protector and plug the latter into the CC pedestal then turn power one. My reasoning is that The PI surge protector will not allow power to the coach if there is something wrong with the outlet. This saves me a step. I used to plug the surge protector alone then observe the values then turn power off again and plug the coach cord.

[rarebear.nm]

As mentioned above quality EMS products do far more than protect against surges say from lighting. A true surge protector does little more than provide some protection from sudden large power surge, say a lighting strike.



Lighting does some very strange things and with somewhat unpredictable results. It is one thing to deal with a lighting strike on the power supply system some distance away and very different if it is a direct strike. Here's a couple of interesting photos.



think

One time I witnessed an exploding tree like the top pic at about 100ft in front of me. Makes you think about nature's forces.


Any how point is a good EMS will protect your equipment from the most common exceptions on the power grid but it likely to fail in some extreme cases. IMO an EMS is just another insurance policy. A cheap policy at that.


I have always had a built-in EMS in each RV I've owned.


Just a note; NFPA has banned use of autoformers in RV parks. Issue is that autoformers while great sounding in sales material have a problem. When the voltage drops the autoformers draws more amps to increase the voltage. Depending on the amp load at the time of voltage drops you be exceeding the rated capacity of the cable. Thus creating heat and perhaps fire. From a park's perspective if the power voltage is dropping due to loads, and autoformers kick-in the amp will increase more. This becomes a bigger issue when there are multiple RVs with autoformers in the area. This can become a run-away problem possible resulting in fire and/or damage to the park's electrical system. This is still a bigger issue for older parks with more limited power systems.


Just think about how you try to solve a problem and how that may impact others as well as you.

[DeWat]

There is nothing wrong with having both. I will say that you have better chances with the extra protector. Why... because it will be the first to see any problems and if it has good protection, it will be the first sacrifice providing the protection you are seeking in not having the coach out of service. The good thing about portable units, even when compared to the same version hardwire units (we use the Progressive Industries portable) is that the portable can be plugged in to check the pole for problems even before plugging in the coach.

Now with that said...

It's not going to matter as you were wrong the minute you said my wife and I are having this debate [emoji56] [emoji56] [emoji56].

[Myk55]

Hey, My setup is an little pricey but it works. I



Hughes Autoformers RV220-50-SP, Voltage Booster with Surge Protection, 50 Amp

and there 50 amp auto-shut down surge protector and replacement board Just in case. I have a cable from the pedestal to my security electric box which I chain to my wheels. they can cut bike cables so fast less than a minute I have a motion alarm

with very loud alarm. I used a square truck box modified so I could put my surge protector and Auto transformer and Bluetooth monitor inside and lock it up it get chained to my wheels and I added a lock clasp to the box. and ventilation fan and fireproof spray foam on the inside. I have a fire/smoke alarm inside. I also put a motion alarm on it. I had 4 attempts at stealing it so far all have been caught. I have camera's 360 around my rig 24/7 recording be surprised of how much stuff people try. I even had someone try and steal my stinky slinky one time. you know its the expensive parks I have problems with thief than the cheaper sketchy ones.

you can have all the protection and still get hit by lighting.


I can take this with me if I change rigs.



Myk
Florida

[rprochnow]

Originally Posted by mahdi

I leave my power cord plugged into the surge protector and plug the latter into the CC pedestal then turn power one. My reasoning is that The PI surge protector will not allow power to the coach if there is something wrong with the outlet. This saves me a step. I used to plug the surge protector alone then observe the values then turn power off again and plug the coach cord.

The instructions for our PI EMS recommend to plug the EMS into the pedestal first to verify the shore power is clean. Then disconnect the EMS from the pedestal, plug in the coach cord and then connect back to the pedestal.

[Rev. Roy]

[QUOTE..
Just a note; NFPA has banned use of autoformers in RV parks. .[/QUOTE]

The NFPA is a nonprofit organization with NO authority to ban anything! Autoformers have not been banned in any campground that we've been to and testing has failed to prove the claims of causing overloading or stealing power from others is true.

[rarebear.nm]

Originally Posted by Rev. Roy

[QUOTE..
Just a note; NFPA has banned use of autoformers in RV parks. .

The NFPA is a nonprofit organization with NO authority to ban anything! Autoformers have not been banned in any campground that we've been to and testing has failed to prove the claims of causing overloading or stealing power from others is true.[/QUOTE]


True NFPA itself does not authority. Just a little background on NFPA.

NFPA publishes more than 300 consensus codes and standards intended to minimize the possibility and effects of fire and other risks. NFPA codes and standards, administered by more than 260 Technical Committees comprising approximately 10,000 volunteers, are adopted and used throughout the world

OHSA does use some of the NFPA guidleines and in that sense it does becomes enforceable with legal authority. The National Electrical Code (NEC) is section 70 of the NFPA recommendations. The NEC is indeed very enforceable when adopted at the state/local level.



I mistyped the banning of autoformers. What has been banned by NEC 2020 are autotransformers for some applications. Devices likes the Hughes Autoformer are not an autotransformers and therefor is not banned. NEC Section, 551.20(E), simply states: "Autotransformers shall not be used."


Back to autoformers, while not banned they can boost output voltage by up tp 10%. When they are boosting voltage that power has to come from somewhere. And that is by drawing more amps. Very true that the 30/50 amp breaker at the RV site will limit total amp draw to 30/50 amps. Some older parks may not have enough total power capacity at there utility interconnect to fully power 100% of the rated loaded at each site. This is true in most breaker setups. Your house may have a 100 or 200 amp main breaker and total combined rating of all branch circuit breakers usually exceeds the 100 or 200 amp main capacity.


While only a few autoformers at an RV park may not cause an issue but at some point the feeder circuit for a group of RV sites likely can not handle too many of the sites drawing a full 50 amp load. This is where problems start to happen.


There are some RV parks that do ban autoformers and that is their option.

[kg6vvo]

I have the Hughs Auto former hard wired into my coach I started with it plugged into the pedestal but I like the hard wired option that I use now it’s also brings up the voltage of the park your in has low voltage. It’s a small price to pay for piece of mind

[Florida Rang]

When we are at a campground and a lighting storm starts on the horizon, I have the best way way to increase your chances of not getting hit. I go to the pedestal and Unplug my Motorhome being sure to put the plug somewhere away from the pedestal and up off the ground. Then I go inside and start my Generator for power to the Motorhome until the the storm passes. Once we were in a campground and lightning struck on a campsite 5 sites away from us and did electrical damage to other R/V’s close to us. We were unplugged and generator was running so we had no damage..After further looking at were lightning struck a tree it traveled to the closest power pedestal then traveled the wires to the other pedestals close by . Most all park pedestals are wired in a daisy chain setup.

[Steve 716]

Some Surge Guard transfer switches incorporate internal one and done surge protection. If it blows you need to replace the entire device. Some Surge Guard transfer switches incorporate resettable surge protection. If you have a one and doone I strongly recommend that you purchase either an internal or external Progressive surge protector before your transfer switch. I purchased an internal device and mounted it behind my hose reel. That was a matter of preference for me. Either internal or external will function the same.

[TXduo]

I'm on my second throw away sacrificial protector at the pedestal, a Progressive Industries SSP-50X. https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ssp-50x. First one died and probably saved my Surge Guard 40250 https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004A...rb_top?ie=UTF8 which interfaces with my Alladin system so would be hard to replace. I also have a Hughes 50 amp SP out of the weather in the coach bay that I can plug inline just before the Surge Guard as needed for low voltage. I have found some parks with voltages where the 2% minimal boost of the Hughes would push the voltage toward the high side. So IF I don't need the 10% boost it is unplugged from the line.

As others have mentioned, I use the throw away SSP-50X & a volt meter to check the pedestal before I plug the power cord in.

I'm happy. Just IMHO so YMMV

[MKwilli]

We have a 5th wheel that was wired for a generator with an internal generator surge protector. We do not have an interlined generator. We've asked our dealer and then our service center if we need additional surge protection from the post. The answer was yes, use an external surge protector. Hope this helps.

[mmcbride56]

Originally Posted by GW4607

...The biggest concern is low voltage verses a surge. Lower voltage cause appliances and electrical items to pull higher amperage. When you initially hook up voltage can be good. Later in the day has more people run more appliances, AC, convection ovens, etc. voltage drops...

So, personally, I decided to acquired the Hughes Autoformers Voltage Booster with Surge Protection. It comes in both 30 and 50 amp (mine is the 50 amp one). This is for pedestal power surges AND voltage treatment and will amplify low voltage conditions by as much as 10% before cutting out if it cannot treat the voltage adequately. It also protects against high voltage conditions as well similar to a line surge.
Since I did not want to leave such an expensive item sitting at the pedestal, I chose to keep it inside the compartment where the transfer switch resides. I managed to do this by adding a 50 amp receptacle in said compartment and shorten the power cord from the transfer switch, adding a plug to that end, wire the remaining power cord into the receptacle from which to plug into the pedestal. I can then plug the Autoformer into that new receptacle and plug the transfer switch to the outlet of the Autoformer.
The advantage of doing it this way is that this allows me to remove the Autoforrmer altogether in case it should go bad, in which case I just plug the transfer switch directly to the recepticle, or if I am placing the coach in storage. I had my Progressive Industry hard wired surge protector stolen while in storage once, I wasn't going to let that happen again
Yes, the Autoformers are expensive, however just a bit more than the Progressive and the Progressive will not amplify low voltage only monitor and cut out if the condition exists which is very frequent in many RV Parks I discovered.
As far as the original question goes, redundancy is always a good thing and if you go the route your wife suggest, it may, indeed protect your onboard
ems and, if that were the case, you could then just remove the pedestal one and rely solely on the onboard one until you can get a replacement.

On the flip side, It might be interesting to know if the onboard ems can be placed in bypass mode so that you would at least have power in a pinch should it be permanently knocked out. Without knowing the make and model, some of them just have a circuit breaker that might be able to be reset, you should check the manual for that or look for a push-button type switch that would just pop-up should a surge be detected and cause it to disconnect power to the coach.