The side-by-side Truth about Turning Radius

[A. L.]

Wow!...Four feet tighter UTurn seems huge to me. It has me doubting that a DS4369 on a Spartan is the right choice. From what you say, tqqest, a DS on a FL is more nimble (easier to drive) and the current pricing is $7,140 more for a less agile Spartan.

Any more comments, everyone, on Turning Radius of FL vs Spartan?

[bsla11]

I think you have to compare the same model and year they are usually the same between Freightliner and Spartan.

It seems to me Newmar sets the specification of the chassis that Freightliner and Spartan needs to supply. In recent years just about all specs are exactly equal between the two for the same year and model including wheel cut. I could be wrong here as I haven't checked every one.

It is interesting that the shorter length coaches have the higher wheel cut.

2021 DS FL at 37' is 60, 40' it's 56 and 43+ it's 52 degree wheel cut.

Bottom line is check the models and years you are considering as it seems it to change but generally the FL and Spartan are the same if model/year match.

If turning radius is the primary consideration a 33' New Aire with a 60 degree wheel cut is probably the best you can do

[zzotte]

Four feet it’s a bit of a push, Freightliner DS 2021 has a 56 front wheel cut and Spartan has 55 I doubt that makes a four feet difference

Zzotte

[tqqest]

Originally Posted by A. L.

Wow!...Four feet tighter UTurn seems huge to me. It has me doubting that a DS4369 on a Spartan is the right choice. From what you say, tqqest, a DS on a FL is more nimble (easier to drive) and the current pricing is $7,140 more for a less agile Spartan.

Any more comments, everyone, on Turning Radius of FL vs Spartan?

A.L.,

4 feet is not that big a deal in daily use of my coach. They all turn pretty darn sharp, and the sharper they turn, the more tail swing you have to watch out for.On my Tiffin I had to extend the towbar so my Jeep wouldn't hit the rear corner of the coach in a full lock turn. Also, I would not say that that the tighter wheel cut makes any difference in driving the two coaches on regular streets.

I can say that after 6 years in my Tiffin with its 60 degree wheel cut (it only had 315 front tires), I do notice the the difference in tight campgrounds. Also as I said up above, the difference between the Spartan and Freightliner wheel cut is only on the 43 ft models and only prior to 2021. For 2021 the Spartan now has a better wheel cut.

I would not avoid the Spartan for the wheel cut alone. Plus, I did end up with a Spartan chassis on my current coach.

[tqqest]

Originally Posted by zzotte

Four feet it’s a bit of a push, Freightliner DS 2021 has a 56 front wheel cut and Spartan has 55 I doubt that makes a four feet difference

Zzotte

Zzotte,

The numbers you use above are not accurate for the Dutch Star 2017/18? to 2020 model years. You can't use the generic claimed wheel cut quoted by Spartan or Freightliner, as the actual wheel cut depends on the front tire size.

For 2017/18? thru 2021, Freightliner quotes their DS front axle wheel cut at 60º. But that is only with a 295 tire on the 37' chassis, with a 315 tire on the 40' chassis it is 56º, and with the 365 tire on the 43' chassis it is only 52º in the front and 12º for the tag.

For 2017/18? thru 2020 DS, Spartan quotes a 55º wheel cut. But that is only on the 40' models with the 315 tires. On the 43' models with the 365 tires it is only 50º front wheel cut and 8º for the tag. That's 2º less up front and 4º less on the tag than the Freightliner. Both are a big drop from the advertised 60º wheel cut on my Tiffin Powerglide chassis with the 315 front tires.

For the 2021 Dutch Star model year, Spartan is now showing a 56º front and a 10.3º tag wheel cut for the 40' models and is now up to a 55º front and 9º tag axle wheel cut. A BIG improvement from the 50º/8º on my 2020. For 2021 the Freightliner remains the same.

As far as the 4' u-turn difference, I can only tell you of MY experience test driving the two 2019 chassis back to back. Now it is possible that the salesman wanted to move the Freightliner chassis more than the Spartan and fudged a little on the placement of the cones as I made my full lock u-turn. But, I could tell from the drivers seat that the Spartan took more space to turn.

If my memory serves me right, my Tiffin took about 60' or less for a full lock u-turn, and my Spartan takes about 68'. I do wish I had the 2021 Spartan chassis on mine, but I don't think my wife will let me trade-in my coach yet!

Here are the specs.

The DS Freightliner for 2020 and 2021



The 2020 Spartan DS



And the 2021 Spartan DS
Notice that Spartan also increased the front axle to 20,000 lbs



Regards

[zzotte]

I love pictures don’t you? Here it’s my directly from Freightliner fro 2021, I don’t have Spartan Specs but give me a few days

[zzotte]

for the 44 it’s even lower



As you can see the differences are so small definitely not for 4’ unless the Freightliner got a head start LOL

[2cyber71]

Interesting info.

[tqqest]

Originally Posted by zzotte

for the 44 it’s even lower

Attachment 300227

As you can see the differences are so small definitely not for 4’ unless the Freightliner got a head start LOL

LOL I guess, not sure why you don't believe me. I see that "sramer" on post #12 went from a 43' DS Spartan to a 45' London Aire on a Freightliner and had the exact same experience. Quote "I had a 2019 Dutch Star 4369 on a Spartan and now I have a 2019 London Aire 4543 on a Freightliner chassis. The Dutch Star length is 43’09” and the London Aire is 44’10” plus the wheelbase is longer and the London Air, hands down has a better turning radius then the Dutch Star." That's two of us with direct experience, but hey what do we know, everyone knows that Spartan is always the best. Anyway, it's all moot now, since for 2021 Spartan really will have a better turning radius with their new 55º front wheel cut on the 43 footer vs the Freightliner at 52º.


As for pictures, yep, as I said earlier, the DS Freightliner chassis wheel cut numbers haven't changed for 2021 and have been the same for several years now. 52º wheel cut for the 43' with the big 365 front tires and 56º wheel cut on the 40' with the 315 front tires.

Glad to see the Freightliner info agrees with Newmar's that I posted above.

Regards

[tqqest]

A.L.

I am sorry that I sidetracked your thread. The Spartan vs Freightliner debate is as old as this forum. I feel that right now both choices are so good that you really can't go wrong with either one. And for 2021 Spartan has stepped up their game with a better front wheel cut and going to the 20,000 front axle rating. Zzotte is right that their turn radius is amazing for such big beasts! I have a 30' class C motorhome that my kids share, and my DS4369 EASILY out turns it.

I really wanted a Freightliner chassis when I bought mine last year because of great local service, it had a more firm ride, and I really liked the new column mounted switchgear. But now having owned the Spartan chassis for a year, and after changing out the front shocks, I truly don't know which I would get today if I was to place a new order!

Newmar makes a great coach. The Dutch Star is a great value. I test drove and researched 10 different coaches in 2018 and 2019 before I bought my DS4369 and I would make the same choice today. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

PS I think that many people might not know that our "Signature line" doesn't appear on many mobile devices so we forget to include our current rig info.

[zzotte]

I believe that for 2021 for the rights of Bragging about Spartan Chassis it’s 6k option in 2017 was a no cost option

Zzotte

[tqqest]

Originally Posted by zzotte

I believe that for 2021 for the rights of Bragging about Spartan Chassis it’s 6k option in 2017 was a no cost option

Zzotte

Zzotte,

Even higher than that! I was playing on the Newmar site last nite building a 2021 DS and the retail price for the Spartan chassis upgrade was $7,140! So that’s about $5,200 with the standard discount. That’s getting pretty pricey, be interesting to see how that affects the FL vs Spartan order ratio.

[zzotte]

Originally Posted by tqqest

Zzotte,

Even higher than that! I was playing on the Newmar site last nite building a 2021 DS and the retail price for the Spartan chassis upgrade was $7,140! So that’s about $5,200 with the standard discount. That’s getting pretty pricey, be interesting to see how that affects the FL vs Spartan order ratio.

I believe more Newmar’s are on freightliner as right now even more so at that price.

Zzotte

[JCM]

My 40 foot Tripple E Empress elite had a 60 degree turning radius and was excellent. Now I have a 25 foot Tripple E Class B+ or C and it requires almost 4 lanes to do a U turn. I don't know it's turning circle - it is a Ford chassis.