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Old 06-10-2016, 01:31 AM   #1
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Water pump stuck on, fill valve resets it?

Howdy all,

Just today, I noticed my water pump was running for an extended period doing nothing. I don't have anything calling for water in the coach.

I'm hooked up to city water that has great pressure. I always leave the pump on to augment lower city pressure, and today I had a full tank having just arrived last night and topped it off.

If I go to the wet bay and switch the red valve from city to fill, and back again, the water pump shuts itself off. Then, an hour or two later, I noticed it was back on again. Same thing -- flip the valve back and forth, and it shuts back off. It happened once again this evening, so every few hours basically.

Anybody had this issue before? I've been mostly full time in this coach for the last year, and this is the first time I've encountered it.

Thanks.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:07 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Howdy all,

Just today, I noticed my water pump was running for an extended period doing nothing. I don't have anything calling for water in the coach.

I'm hooked up to city water that has great pressure. I always leave the pump on to augment lower city pressure, and today I had a full tank having just arrived last night and topped it off.

If I go to the wet bay and switch the red valve from city to fill, and back again, the water pump shuts itself off. Then, an hour or two later, I noticed it was back on again. Same thing -- flip the valve back and forth, and it shuts back off. It happened once again this evening, so every few hours basically.

Anybody had this issue before? I've been mostly full time in this coach for the last year, and this is the first time I've encountered it.

Thanks.
nebster
Seems that one solution to that problem is to never turn the water pump ON while you're connected to a city water supply that has great pressure.

Mel
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Old 06-10-2016, 01:19 PM   #3
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nebster
Seems that one solution to that problem is to never turn the water pump ON while you're connected to a city water supply that has great pressure.
Well, sure, except

(a) I don't know that the great pressure is the cause, and
(b) if it does this when on crummy pressure, it'll stink, because the whole point is that you can leave the pump on to augment city pressure.
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:00 PM   #4
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I agree with Mel but, if you feel the need to leave the pump turned on, think about this:
The pump is designed to pump up to a specified pressure and shut off. When the pressure drops, it turns on again until it reaches its set pressure ie, when the tap is turned off. If it turns on, it's telling you there is an open valve somewhere to cause the drop in pressure. It's trying to do what it's told.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:40 PM   #5
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The pump is designed to pump up to a specified pressure and shut off. When the pressure drops, it turns on again until it reaches its set pressure ie, when the tap is turned off. If it turns on, it's telling you there is an open valve somewhere to cause the drop in pressure. It's trying to do what it's told.
Yes, what you write makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me are

a) why does the fill valve have anything to do with the pressure (head) the pump feels? Isn't that whole vessel "behind" the pump?

b) even if some other valve is somehow coming open and lowering the head pressure, why isn't the pump making headway, almost like it's air locked or something?

I think for you, me, or anyone else to randomly reason about it, we need a schematic of the lines and flow on a modern Dutch Star. That seemed optimistic to me, so what I was hoping was that this was a common problem that someone else has encountered (and so they know the "answer").

Finally, as for "feeling the need," yes, this is SOP: Newmar recommends leaving pump on in tandem with city water hookup on my model. I reconfirmed this with their technician earlier this week. However, I believe this is a tangent that we can pursue in another thread if interested, because it's almost certainly orthogonal to the problem.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:11 AM   #6
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Nebster,
When driving I used to leave the pump on. Twice after stopping for the night I noticed the pump running but no water flow. It's like somehow the pump lost its prime while traveling. Each time momentarily opening and closing the lav. faucet got normal water flow then the pump would shut off. I normally carry around 30 gal. of fresh water, so loosing prime doesn't seem possible.
I'm thinking that somehow the 3-way valve in the wet bay is involved, but not sure.
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Old 06-11-2016, 07:54 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Well, sure, except

(a) I don't know that the great pressure is the cause, and
(b) if it does this when on crummy pressure, it'll stink, because the whole point is that you can leave the pump on to augment city pressure.
nebster
When I had the problem you described in your original post it was caused by an internal water pump leak in the pressure switch diaphragm of my water pump...(part #3 in this drawing).


BTW a leak in the pump diaphragm, (part #5), OR a faulty city/fill valve can cause the same problem.

That "internal pump leak" allowed the water pressure to intermittently/momentarily drop to a pressure low enough to cause the water pump to cycle ON then OFF.

However before I rebuilt my water pump I simply always turned my water pump OFF whenever my coach was connected to city water.

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Old 06-11-2016, 11:57 PM   #8
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Thank you both for these suggestions; they're great.

Mel, when you had the issues with the pump, you say that you turned it off when on city water. Should I take that to mean that you did not see the pump spinning when you were not on city water? Or, in other words, you only observed this problem when city water was connected and you left the pump on?

I'm about to be off city water for a whole week, and I'm planning on seeing if the pump does the same thing without any city pressure.

I will say that my suspicion from the beginning has been the pump. I worked with a lot of pumps for my aquarium hobby years ago, and the one Newmar installed in my coach is pretty cheap. I suppose the good news is that'll mean it's fairly inexpensive to replace, if in fact that's the problem. (Replacing the valve should also be pretty easy, I'd think.)
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:00 AM   #9
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nebster
When I had the problem you described in your original post it was caused by an internal water pump leak

That "internal pump leak" allowed the water pressure to intermittently/momentarily drop to a pressure low enough to cause the water pump to cycle ON then OFF.

However before I rebuilt my water pump I simply always turned my water pump OFF whenever my coach was connected to city water.

Mel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Thank you both for these suggestions; they're great.

Mel, when you had the issues with the pump, you say that you turned it off when on city water. Should I take that to mean that you did not see the pump spinning when you were not on city water? Or, in other words, you only observed this problem when city water was connected and you left the pump on?

I'm about to be off city water for a whole week, and I'm planning on seeing if the pump does the same thing without any city pressure.

I will say that my suspicion from the beginning has been the pump.
nebster
What I said/meant was:

1.) My "cycling ON/OFF water pump problem" was caused by an internal pump leak.

2.) Before I repaired the pump, (replaced the leaking diaphragm), I solved the "cycling ON/OFF problem" by ONLY turning the water pump ON when I needed to use water from the on-board water tank.... (NEVER when I was connected to a city water source).

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Old 06-12-2016, 10:15 PM   #10
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Sorry, my question was unclear. I'll restate it: when you were not connected to city water, did you still have the problem with the pump staying stuck on? It sounds like the answer is probably "yes," but perhaps you simply turned the pump off after each use.
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Old 06-13-2016, 04:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Howdy all,

Just today, I noticed my water pump was running for an extended period doing nothing. I don't have anything calling for water in the coach.

I'm hooked up to city water that has great pressure. I always leave the pump on to augment lower city pressure, and today I had a full tank having just arrived last night and topped it off.

If I go to the wet bay and switch the red valve from city to fill, and back again, the water pump shuts itself off. Then, an hour or two later, I noticed it was back on again. Same thing -- flip the valve back and forth, and it shuts back off. It happened once again this evening, so every few hours basically.

Anybody had this issue before? I've been mostly full time in this coach for the last year, and this is the first time I've encountered it.

Thanks.
We had something similar in our Mountain Aire on a shake down run after picking it up from the dealer this spring. It ended up being the valve for the city/fill on the water. The valve was allowing water to bypass and go into the fresh tank even though it was in the city water position, not the fill position. The fresh tank overflowed and was coming out the overflow on the passenger side (overflow was a duck bill type output).

My first thought was disconnect from city water, which we did. But when we turned the pump on, it was cycling every 10-15 seconds for 3-5 seconds. I texted the dealer and told him what was going on and he asked for a pic of the wet bay and the valve. When I sent a pic of wet bay to dealer he noticed the valve, instead of being at a 3 o'clock position was at about 3:30-3:45 position, or slightly beyond where it should. He suggested moving it back to the 3pm position, which resolved BOTH issues. Now, the pump could be left on and only cycled when water was called for. Then, I shut the pump off and hooked back up to the water connection and no water went into the fill tank when the valve was in the "city water" setting in the 3 o'clock position. We stopped back at the dealer a few days later and they swapped the valve out with a new one and no issues since.

So morale of the story is, check if your valve handle is allowing you to go beyond it's optimal position. On ours I would have thought that could have allowed the fresh water fill issue we had, but didn't expect it would have caused the pump cycling after we disconnected from water and tried to use the pump but it had to do with maintaining a pressure level and shutting itself off.

Your mileage may vary, but thought I'd throw this out there. Good luck resolving your issue.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:36 AM   #12
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Sorry, my question was unclear. I'll restate it: when you were not connected to city water, did you still have the problem with the pump staying stuck on? It sounds like the answer is probably "yes," but perhaps you simply turned the pump off after each use.
nebster
If I turned the 12V power to the pump ON and left it ON I had "the problem" whether connected to city water or not.

However until I fixed the pump I solved "the problem" by only tuning the pump ON when I needed to draw water from the on-board water tank... (leaving it OFF when connected to city water).

Now, (with the pump repaired), I can leave the water pump ON whether connected to city water or not.... with no "problem".

Mel
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebster View Post
Howdy all,

Just today, I noticed my water pump was running for an extended period doing nothing. I don't have anything calling for water in the coach.

I'm hooked up to city water that has great pressure. I always leave the pump on to augment lower city pressure, and today I had a full tank having just arrived last night and topped it off.

If I go to the wet bay and switch the red valve from city to fill, and back again, the water pump shuts itself off. Then, an hour or two later, I noticed it was back on again. Same thing -- flip the valve back and forth, and it shuts back off. It happened once again this evening, so every few hours basically.

Anybody had this issue before? I've been mostly full time in this coach for the last year, and this is the first time I've encountered it.

Thanks.

Pressure switch is dead inside the water pump. Time for a new pump. Some times you can pull the switch apart and clean it but more than likely it is just DOA.
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Old 06-15-2016, 03:02 PM   #14
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Thanks guys. You've narrowed it to two possibilities, and it'll be a few weeks before I have a chance to start swapping out components to see which one is the culprit. I'll probably do the valve first, since it's cheaper and easy.

I'll report back here when I get the bottom of the problem.
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