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Old 11-21-2020, 07:43 AM   #15
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OK, coolant filter first: Unless you have the new-generation OAT based coolant which uses a filter BLANK (full filtration, no SCA) this is one of the very few things on the coach where replacing with exactly the same part number MAY BE THE WRONG ANSWER.



SCA concentration needs to be tested before changing the coolant filter. The filters come in different quantities of SCA starting with zero. SCA can also be added in liquid form.




Allison transmission filters: change at interval prescribed by Allison based on the fluid you have (Dexron vs Transynd). Change fluid and filters at the same time.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:49 AM   #16
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A couple of thoughts about coolant in our Alpines: 1-not sure if, when, how coolant "breaks-down" and must be replaced; 2- common, periodic testing for the SCA-based coolant is SCA level and freeze-point [OATS testing is different?]; 3- scale build-up or contamination are the main concerns [eg engine or tranny oil/fluid]; 4- older Cummins engines have coolant filters, 2005 and newer don't; 5- filters can trap scale and rust but not contaminates; 6- SCA level protects against cavitation and cylinder liner pitting; 7- SCA can be maintained by directly adding SCA units to coolant or thru units added in the filters; 8- for engines with filters, these filters come in several levels of SCA, eg, 0 to 4 units I believe, based on amount needed to maintain SCA levels.
Bottom-line: properly maintained SCA-based coolant may actually last for a long time in our Alpines before "needing" to be replaced. How long I don't know???? Seems opinions vary--including the professional ones.
PS--Allison fluid and filter changing is a whole different set of opinions!
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:48 AM   #17
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Good description by Old Scout.


The test strips for "low silicate coolant for diesels with added SCA"-- the old style coolant tests for THREE important things:


SCA concentration
pH (as it ages coolant becomes more acidic and can eat metal components)
Freeze point


Coolant can be "modified" by the addition of SCA if that is the issue and that also slightly raises pH (making it slightly less acidic). And coolant concentrate can be added if the only issue is inadequate freeze protection.


Both miles and time affect coolant. There is no "here is when they all need to be changed".


The other option at change time is to switch to the new generation long-life OAT based coolants that are basically put it in and forget about it (no testing) for at least 6 years. If you do go with one of these (as many of us have done) please ignore the "add booster after 3 years". That is correct advice for OTR trucks that will have a few hundred thousand miles on them in that time, but NOT correct for motorhomes, as it causes an over-concentration. That "booster recommendation" would be better written add at 3 years/300,000 miles. But, RV's represent such a small percent of diesels that doubt this will ever happen.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:04 AM   #18
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For my comment above on the type of coolant I used (Fleetguard Compleat ES 2820) it is important to add that I would not have changed my old coolant, as nothing in the testing indicated to do so.
However my lower coolant pipe was very rusty with big chunks of the original coating flaking off taking a whole layer of metal with it.
I thought this morning to start a new thread to alert everyone to check that but on the other hand I was not sure how many had this issue. In other climates this might not be an issue at all.
I had a new pipe manufactured at a muffler shop... When the guy looked at it I was ready for a $300 estimate ... he goes Labor material and all ... $50, but it will be a couple hours before we get to it. I had a big grin on my face.
This Project turned out a bid bigger:
# 3 New Hump hoses (Gates)
# New lower steel pipe
# Taking the rust off the upper pipe and coat with POR15
# The straight up and 90 degree metal pipe on top of the engine was also rather corroded so I took care of that.
# The coolant surge tank (especially the bottom) stared to rust - 2 coats of POR 15
# New coolant tank cap 16 psi (sure enough I bought the wrong one)
# new Gates 90 degree hose with wire insert
# new 1Ē hose from bottom of tank to lower pipe (Gates green stripe)
# 3 new 3/8Ē silicone heater hose section that connect to the top of the tank.
# A complete set of stainless constant pressure hose clamps
# I cleaned the radiator pack earlier this year (simple green and water hose) and used POR15 on the end caps on the AC Radiator)
# replaced the serpentine belt while I was at it (Gates fleet runner). Probably should put new belt tensioner on as well but have not identified the part# yet.

Yesterday I stared to add a shut off valve to the hose that connects to the engine under the alternator. With everything out of the way I can get to that without pulling the alternator out. I have not sourced that valve yet but envision an in-line ball valve with 2 barbed hose connectors.
My coach had the heater hoses that run on the passenger side along the rail already replaced (they are routed a bit different) so I hope I am good there
The total for the project was about $380 as of now but I compared prices a lot.
Anyways I hope I do not have to touch the coolant system again.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x5 View Post
Its the exact same thing with me. I am starting to doubt my test strips. Good to know that the lab test was good too.



Which version of ES Compleat did they recommend? The OAT which is red?

Based on the Cummins shop managers recommendation I used the ES Compleat Blue. Based on what I've read it is essentially a life time coolant with minimal service requirement.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...es/LT15070.pdf
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:39 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Based on the Cummins shop managers recommendation I used the ES Compleat Blue. Based on what I've read it is essentially a life time coolant with minimal service requirement.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...es/LT15070.pdf

Guess I would classify that as a "hybrid" coolant, as it IS long-life, but DOES require testing (less frequently than older generation coolants) and maintenance of SCA concentration.


From your link:



ES CompleatôLifetime



Heavy Duty Fully Formulated Antifreeze/Coolant



Genuine PerformanceLife-of-the-Engine, 1,000,000 mileProvides antifreeze and antiboil protectionSuperior liner pitting and corrosion protectionSuperior aluminum and solder protectionCompatible with gaskets, elastomers and other non-metallics in the engineOptimizes cooling system performance and water pump lifeContains proprietary scale inhibitors


Genuine VersatilityCompatible with all other antifreeze/coolantsChoose from EG & PG formulationsAvailable in concentrate, 50/50 and 60/40For all Heavy Duty diesel and gas engines


Genuine ServiceabilityAdditive levels easily maintained via DCA4 liquid, or DCA4 chemical filtersEasy to use test strips monitor glycol and additive levels providing protection against coolant dilution*
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Based on the Cummins shop managers recommendation I used the ES Compleat Blue. Based on what I've read it is essentially a life time coolant with minimal service requirement.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...es/LT15070.pdf

My experience was 100% like yours after much research of what other owners had done I called 2 fleet service places in Northern KY and talked to theirs Cummins tech. Both of them said that they recommend not going with the OAT (Organic Acid Technology) and only recommend changing it out at all if something presents the opportunity like a new water pump. Both of them recommended the Fleetguard Compleat ES (yes itís blue) and I choose the EG version (so Ethylene Glycol) and not the PG version (Polypropylene Glycol) as my original green is also EG.
I did not do a full flush but this morning I opted to run distilled water through the heater core (hand pump) as I took the hoses off the engine anyways.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:11 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Alpine06 View Post
My experience was 100% like yours after much research of what other owners had done I called 2 fleet service places in Northern KY and talked to theirs Cummins tech. Both of them said that they recommend not going with the OAT (Organic Acid Technology) and only recommend changing it out at all if something presents the opportunity like a new water pump. Both of them recommended the Fleetguard Compleat ES (yes itís blue) and I choose the EG version (so Ethylene Glycol) and not the PG version (Polypropylene Glycol) as my original green is also EG.
I did not do a full flush but this morning I opted to run distilled water through the heater core (hand pump) as I took the hoses off the engine anyways.



Why did they recommend not going with OAT? It's their top of the line product. Unnecessary expense? Too much flushing required?
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:16 AM   #23
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I think they donít do it in their shop because of the amount of time it takes to flush the system. That is a bit reading between the lines. The one tech asked if I had a filter I told him I do not. He mentioned that the earlier build ISL
400 had a problem with the liner and the filter received a sacrificial anode. Later the material composition of the liner (sleeve) was changed making the filter unnecessary.
I have not confirmed this nor researched it any further.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:21 AM   #24
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The one tech asked if I had a filter I told him I do not. He mentioned that the earlier build ISL 400 had a problem with the liner and the filter received a sacrificial anode. Later the material composition of the liner (sleeve) was changed making the filter unnecessary.
Joerg

First I have heard of that-- would appreciate documentation on both presence of anode material in coolant filter and that the early ISL's had liner issues.


Could be true, but would hate to see an "alternate fact" get widely circulated.
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Old 11-22-2020, 11:37 AM   #25
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…..don't think the coolant filter was deleted from the ISL 400 until 2004/05 with the production of the Pegasus engine--good be wrong--its happened before!!!!
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Old 11-22-2020, 02:25 PM   #26
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I am very well on my way getting all this done and I am happy with my decision using the Fleetguard compleast ES and all the new pipes, hoses and clamps. Filter / no filter, OTA or not is all settled for me. I hope to start the refill of the coolant system early this week I am pressure testing the new lower pipe on the bench today hoping that welds are tight. I still need to get the shut off valves installed but once thatís done I will be glad to check this project of my list.
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Old 11-22-2020, 02:42 PM   #27
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….good on you--I have been putting off replacing the coolant hoses in the engine compartment on my 2003 but draining/re-filling 12 gal of coolant doesn't sound like much fun....
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Old 11-22-2020, 02:50 PM   #28
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... you know what ... the draining was not all that bad I used a large big plastic container that I had in my garage and then transferred the coolant into 5gal pails via a hand pump. That was painless. But the hump hoses I had to cut off they welded themself to the pipe no way of getting them loose. The upper one on the radiator was a challenge, good that not all around understand when I start swearing in German lol.
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