Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-25-2021, 10:14 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Generator charging upgrade???

So the question is.............. Would you spend $~750 if you could charge your batteries twice as fast with your generator?

Note: While I have a 24V system I'll use 12V numbers as most have a better point of reference on 12V systems

My current set-up with dual Victron Inverter/chargers will charge my Lithium battery bank at up to 280A (2X140A for each inverter/charger) if I am feeding the inverters with split-phase power (120/240V), for instance, 50A shore power.

Each charging leg uses about 20A to run each charger but if I use the on-board 7500W generator it is only capable of 120V output even though it can deliver as much as 62A it is limited to only one inverter charging as it is not delivering this power in "Split-Phase".

The solution seems to be to use an autotransformer to change the generator output to "Split-Phase (120/240) which will allow both chargers to be in service while using the generator..... a full charge as currently configured can take up to 3 hours, with the autotransformer this is down to 1.5 hours!

My data shows that our cost of generator power is ~$2 per hour all in so the payback is 400 hours and might not make financial sense but the value of not hearing that generator run any longer than necessary is to me...................... Priceless

What do you all think???
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-25-2021, 10:50 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,749
Not sure I follow--what does phased vs non-phased 120v legs [2] on genset have to do with running separate chargers--you don't need split-phase to run two A/Cs on genset?..I think most of us only have one charger and no Li bats [smile]. So for me, since we don't do a lot of dry camping--its hard to have an opinion....but I do admire your solar/bat set-up.....its top shelf!
Ps--I was pretty happy with my solar upgrade to 600 watts before going to Q-site this year....ran my genset 1 or 2 hours in the morning and maybe 1 hour at night....had between 83-86% SOC [as read on my new Victron battery monitor]on my six 12v L/A bats [some TV, a bit of propane furnace heat and a resid-fridge].....lots of sun shine this year so 600 watts fully recovered bats by early afternoon and kept them at 100% for rest of the day.
Old Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2021, 12:08 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout View Post
Not sure I follow--what does phased vs non-phased 120v legs [2] on genset have to do with running separate chargers--you don't need split-phase to run two A/Cs on genset?..I think most of us only have one charger and no Li bats [smile]. So for me, since we don't do a lot of dry camping--its hard to have an opinion....but I do admire your solar/bat set-up.....its top shelf!
Ps--I was pretty happy with my solar upgrade to 600 watts before going to Q-site this year....ran my genset 1 or 2 hours in the morning and maybe 1 hour at night....had between 83-86% SOC [as read on my new Victron battery monitor]on my six 12v L/A bats [some TV, a bit of propane furnace heat and a resid-fridge].....lots of sunshine this year so 600 watts fully recovered bats by early afternoon and kept them at 100% for rest of the day.
Very cool....happy that is working out for you!!

In our case, the 2 inverter/chargers that we now have installed are set-up in split-phase (120/240) which requires the power in to be 180* out of phase just like a 50A shore power cord will do. this is our case as we plan to upgrade the rooftop AC to a mini-split with 2 zones, which require a 120/240 connection just like at home and we can now do this.

When the generator was installed at the factory it was set-up to feed both sides of the 50A panel but there was no need for split-phase or "220" as none of the circuits needed the split-phase wiring. In our case, we still get good charging from the generator but it could actually be DOUBLE for $~750.....This is the dilemma
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 03:13 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Brianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Brookfield,WI
Posts: 593
Paul,
Sounds like a solution looking for a problem, in my opinion.
Imagine how much wine/beer you could buy for $750.

��
__________________
Brianna
2000 Alpine Coach 36 FDS
Wisconsin
Brianna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 03:36 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna View Post
Paul,
Sounds like a solution looking for a problem, in my opinion.
Imagine how much wine/beer you could buy for $750.

��
I think of it a little more like the guy who just spent $15K on a new more powerful engine for his hot rod and his transmission won't let him take it out of 3rd gear ........for $700 more he can now use 4th, 5th, and 6th gear and get the full potential out of that new motor...... Right??
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 03:44 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Freqz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,007
Sure. Itís only money, right? Not listening to the genset drone on for an extra hour/day has to be worth something, right?

Added benefit is running your 240V loads off 30, 20, or 15A shore power with less stress on the batteries.
__________________
2018 ORV Timber Ridge 24rks
2017 F350 6.7 CC DRW
Freqz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 08:20 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freqz View Post
Sure. It’s only money, right? Not listening to the genset drone on for an extra hour/day has to be worth something, right?

Added benefit is running your 240V loads off 30, 20, or 15A shore power with less stress on the batteries.
Actually The system will already run 240V loads from the existing inverters on batteries alone or with any of the 30/20/15A inputs including the generator input as the dual inverters are set-up as split-phase......the Autotransformer will allow the generator to drive both chargers vs just one when charging the batteries from the generator
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 09:02 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Freqz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
Actually The system will already run 240V loads from the existing inverters on batteries alone or with any of the 30/20/15A inputs including the generator input as the dual inverters are set-up as split-phase......the Autotransformer will allow the generator to drive both chargers vs just one when charging the batteries from the generator

Yes, but the second inverter is 100% battery powered right now in that scenario, no? The auto transformer would allow you to run both on AC with zero DC draw which is *small* benefitó saves losses on AC-DC-AC conversion (negligible, probably) and micro cycles on the batteries. . Batteries are expensive enough that treating them with baby gloves is a plus, IMO.

But really, dumping 2X the current into the batteries from the gen is worth $700 or so in my world.
__________________
2018 ORV Timber Ridge 24rks
2017 F350 6.7 CC DRW
Freqz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 09:10 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freqz View Post
Yes, but the second inverter is 100% battery powered right now in that scenario, no? The auto transformer would allow you to run both on AC with zero DC draw which is *small* benefit— saves losses on AC-DC-AC conversion (negligible, probably) and micro cycles on the batteries. . Batteries are expensive enough that treating them with baby gloves is a plus, IMO.

But really, dumping 2X the current into the batteries from the gen is worth $700 or so in my world.
I agree, you're absolutely correct!......I'm still trying to figure out how to wire it in so that it will convert both the generator and 120V shore power without needing 2 of them
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 06:33 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Freqz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,007
Generator charging upgrade???

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
I agree, you're absolutely correct!......I'm still trying to figure out how to wire it in so that it will convert both the generator and 120V shore power without needing 2 of them

Transfer switch...

Iíve been (very roughly) sorting this out for my FW build.

Click image for larger version

Name:	trailer ac electrical sketch.gif
Views:	28
Size:	52.3 KB
ID:	317126
__________________
2018 ORV Timber Ridge 24rks
2017 F350 6.7 CC DRW
Freqz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 08:08 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brianna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Brookfield,WI
Posts: 593
I hope, some day to get a tour of the paul65k coach.
Everything written about it is so beyond, beyond, amazing.
__________________
Brianna
2000 Alpine Coach 36 FDS
Wisconsin
Brianna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 10:07 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freqz View Post
Transfer switch...

Iíve been (very roughly) sorting this out for my FW build.

Attachment 317126
Thank you I'm still trying to figure out the way to wire after the transfer switch to the inverter(s).....dual Multiplus 3000s in my case.

Why would you need the AT on the output side of the Quattro......doesn't it already have 240V output capability?

If not you could use dual multiplus 3000s (about the same price as a single Quattro) and set them up for split-phase output, which would actually give you a bit more overall wattage???
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 10:08 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna View Post
I hope, some day to get a tour of the paul65k coach.
Everything written about it is so beyond, beyond, amazing.
Thanks but, she's just an "Old Beater"....but we love her
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291) - 1600W Solar, 10,752 Wh (420Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 11:31 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Freqz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
Thank you I'm still trying to figure out the way to wire after the transfer switch to the inverter(s).....dual Multiplus 3000s in my case.

Why would you need the AT on the output side of the Quattro......doesn't it already have 240V output capability?

If not you could use dual multiplus 3000s (about the same price as a single Quattro) and set them up for split-phase output, which would actually give you a bit more overall wattage???

It my case, it would be a 240V inverter so you need the auto transformer to provide split phase 120V. (I donít necessarily need split phase but I do need a neutral)

Iím building this around a 8k Quattro to support a mini split and induction cooktopó 6kVA seems a little light for my use. Your way gets more charging current and cost a bit less. Several ways to skin this particular cat!
__________________
2018 ORV Timber Ridge 24rks
2017 F350 6.7 CC DRW
Freqz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charging, generator, upgrade



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is an "upgrade" really an "upgrade"? Kilo66 iRV2.com General Discussion 10 09-27-2017 09:34 AM
TV Upgrade and Battery Upgrade - Itasca Sunrise FrankO Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 15 12-28-2016 03:37 PM
ccc upgrade/axle upgrade? zacktown Monaco Owner's Forum 18 08-07-2012 06:57 AM
battery isolator upgrade / alternator upgrade boomvan Vintage RV's 10 03-15-2012 01:50 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.