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Old 07-09-2021, 05:44 PM   #1
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Inverter output 104V

Wouldn’t you know it. First night boondocking with the new lithium batteries and the inverter is putting out 104 Volts. Here are the details:

2005 MDDS
Xantrex Feeedom 458 2000W inverter (circa 2012).
420Ah Lion Energy lithium batteries currently at 13.32V (93%) installed last month.
Installed Victron BMV-712.
Disconnect switch was installed on Trombetta relay to prevent alternator charging while driving.
Inverter was set to AGM charging protocol when batteries were installed.
Coach has been plugged in to 50A service, either in the barn or at an RV resort, with the exception of the past 2 weeks where it sat in the barn, unplugged, with a stand alone maintenance charger on the chassis batteries.
Last night it was brought up to the house and plugged in to the 15A outlet, put on 15A power share to cool the refrigerator.

On the ~4hr drive today, we ran the generator for the last 2 hours to run the roof A/C’s. We did the same thing a few weeks ago when we returned home from the last trip to cool the coach for unloading at the house.
Cumulative Ah drawn since installed is 604Ah.

I’m ready for your questions? Here’s mine: Did the inverter just die?
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:09 PM   #2
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Did you test the inverter when you were at the house ? Was it working correctly then?
Do you have a large AC load on the inverter- like trying to run your AC on the inverter - that would not be good
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:12 PM   #3
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Check the battery voltage when inverter is on.if its low start there. If its ok and output is 104 thats too low. Probably have a inverter going out. If you can find you a good electronic bench guy it may be repairable. Would start with the output FETís
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:44 PM   #4
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Yes, it had worked prior to today.
No heavy loads such as A/C. A/Cí s and thermostat were turned off while generator was running. Water heater element is off. Coach has propane cook too, refrigerator and furnace.

Indicator light show solid green for Inverting and a blinking charge light, which indicates Stand By, as there is no AC source.

Battery voltage is 13.32V with inverter on and providing 104VAC.
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:50 PM   #5
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The reason you are reading 104v is that all modified sine wave inverters require what is known as a "True RMS" voltage meter in order to determine the correct voltage. This is due to how the voltage is calculated with a modified sine wave vs a true sine wave and most common voltage meters do not have a "true rms" setting. In any case, the good news is that you should be reading around 102~106v when measuring the voltage with most voltage meters when reading the voltage out of a modified sine wave inverter. ~CA

Here is a link to fluke that explains this in a technical manner.

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/bl...at-is-true-rms
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:01 PM   #6
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Iím using a pretty fancy Fluke meter. The refrigerator switched over to propane and the voltage will not run a fan. Iím reasonably certain this voltage is not good for anything.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Gloves View Post
Iím using a pretty fancy Fluke meter. The refrigerator switched over to propane and the voltage will not run a fan. Iím reasonably certain this voltage is not good for anything.
The Fluke voltage meter you would need would be one like this one. A "True RMS" meter and they are expensive ~$520 Check out my previous link and it explains why a standard voltage meter can't accurately read voltages that are not a true sine wave, and I believe your inverter is a "modified sine wave" which is why you are reading 104v. In other words the inverter is most likely outputting ~115vac, but your meter isn't designed to accurately measure modified sine wave voltages (unless you have one like in the link).

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/...meters/87v-max

~CA
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:27 PM   #8
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Following, I noticed the same issue on my last trip.
The same volt meter was reading around 119 volts, now only reading 102-106 with good battery voltage. I haven't tested yet with the Fluke but am using a plug-in Hughes volt meter that came with EMS/surge protector.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:39 PM   #9
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I've used Mark Snyder Electric a couple times for my inverter. A local Cat shop in Bako totally screwed up my battery banks and inverter. The "technician" cut the thermistor off, stripped all 6 wires, connected all of them to a regular crimp ring connector and connected it to the house battery bank. After sitting in their yard over the weekend, all the batteries were COMPLETELY drained and 2 of the 3 circuit boards on the inverter/charger were fried.

Mark is the factory service center for Xantrex. After giving him the symptoms over the phone he said it was one of two things, which was correct. He has a shop in Poway, CA and was in the process of opening another location in Chandler, AZ a couple years ago when I last saw him.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsl55 View Post
I've used Mark Snyder Electric a couple times for my inverter. A local Cat shop in Bako totally screwed up my battery banks and inverter. The "technician" cut the thermistor off, stripped all 6 wires, connected all of them to a regular crimp ring connector and connected it to the house battery bank. After sitting in their yard over the weekend, all the batteries were COMPLETELY drained and 2 of the 3 circuit boards on the inverter/charger were fried.

Mark is the factory service center for Xantrex. After giving him the symptoms over the phone he said it was one of two things, which was correct. He has a shop in Poway, CA and was in the process of opening another location in Chandler, AZ a couple years ago when I last saw him.
I contacted Mark Snyder a few months ago regarding an inverter issue, having used him years ago. They are no longer servicing inverters.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:47 PM   #11
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I think the priblem is as been discussed with MSW inverters and test meter readings.

As for the Hughes plug in meter, I asked of them a couple years ago if worked ok with MSW. The responce was - no.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:52 PM   #12
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I noticed that you said it wouldn't run a fan. Just an FYI. I had 2 fans burn up one day when using the inverter. They were small 13" electronic tower fans. I read later that some electronics and electric motors are not compatible with modified sine inverters. I never had a problem with the old style tabletop fans without the electronics, so I continue using them instead.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigav View Post
The Fluke voltage meter you would need would be one like this one. A "True RMS" meter and they are expensive ~$520 Check out my previous link and it explains why a standard voltage meter can't accurately read voltages that are not a true sine wave, and I believe your inverter is a "modified sine wave" which is why you are reading 104v. In other words the inverter is most likely outputting ~115vac, but your meter isn't designed to accurately measure modified sine wave voltages (unless you have one like in the link).

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/...meters/87v-max

~CA
Ok. Iíll be back to the coach an an hour or so. But, if it is outputting 115V, why will it not run a fan? Why did the refrigerator switch over to propane?

I appreciate the link. Iím just not particularly interested in furthering my knowledge of the nuances of voltage meters.
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Old 07-09-2021, 07:56 PM   #14
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Mark Snyder

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Originally Posted by vsheetz View Post
I contacted Mark Snyder a few months ago regarding an inverter issue, having used him years ago. They are no longer servicing inverters.
That's too bad. He seemed to really know his stuff about Xantrex inverters. Maybe he just decided to stick to solar systems.
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