Community Forums

Alpine06 · 08-18-2020, 02:10 PM

... also the main drawback I see is that you cannot wire your solar in series. That’s a total no go for me.
To your question of how the generator plays into this : the very short answer is that it works just like today assuming you have your inverter programmed to lithium.
Now here a question for you ... how do you charge your chassis battery when the generator is running and the Vansco closes the trombetta (charge bridge) relay ? You now have a lithium charge profile set with a lead acid in tow.
Joerg

Hayduke · 08-21-2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine06

Now here a question for you ... how do you charge your chassis battery when the generator is running and the Vansco closes the trombetta (charge bridge) relay ? You now have a lithium charge profile set with a lead acid in tow.
Joerg

tjshively · 08-23-2020, 07:39 PM

2005 Alpine Coach - 36 ft FDDS
Hey Paul65k

I looked at your photo and I have a couple of questions.
I see you have two Orion TR Smart 12/24 - 15 but in the picture I can't even see any wires hook to them. What is the thing with the red tape? What coach do you have? You wiring looks nothing like mine. Is it possible for you to furnish a diagram as to how you have it all wired? Maybe I'm asking too much - I'm just trying to figure it all out.
Hey Jussen

About the alternator - I have a Delco Remy 28si 200 amp alternator. I talked with the tech guy at Delco Remy and he said the alternator will shut itself down before it melts. As in the scenario where a lithium-ion battery is asking for more amperage than the alternator can supply. The alternator will shut itself down so as not to fail. He said to check with the battery manufacture for DC controller recommendations.
I'm looking for all suggestions & ideas before I screw it up. Attached is the Delco Remy 28si hookup.
Thanks --- TJ

paul65k · 08-23-2020, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjshively

2005 Alpine Coach - 36 ft FDDS
Hey Paul65k

I looked at your photo and I have a couple of questions.
I see you have two Orion TR Smart 12/24 - 15 but in the picture I can't even see any wires hook to them. What is the thing with the red tape? What coach do you have? You wiring looks nothing like mine. Is it possible for you to furnish a diagram as to how you have it all wired? Maybe I'm asking too much - I'm just trying to figure it all out.
Hey Jussen

About the alternator - I have a Delco Remy 28si 200 amp alternator. I talked with the tech guy at Delco Remy and he said the alternator will shut itself down before it melts. As in the scenario where a lithium-ion battery is asking for more amperage than the alternator can supply. The alternator will shut itself down so as not to fail. He said to check with the battery manufacture for DC controller recommendations.
I'm looking for all suggestions & ideas before I screw it up. Attached is the Delco Remy 28si hookup.
Thanks --- TJ

Sorry I don't have a diagram but let me see if I can help. First of all this picture was an early shote during the install.

1. The small redwire is actually the sensor from the Battery bank to the Shunt that sends the Data to the Battery monitor.

2. I removed the battery isolator and wired the alternator directly to the starting batteries, the DC-DC converters get input from the starting batteries and output goes to the House batteries, the Starting batteries become the gateway. The converters are programmable to only engage when the voltage is above 13.4 so no need for a signal from the ignition as the batteries only reach that voltage when charging

I also removed the heart interface to charge the chassis batteries and added a Amp-L-start to handle the charging of the chassis batteries while parked. I left the Boost selonoid in place and wired it to the 12V bus just in case I need to help the starting batteries one of these days

AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page

jcussen · 08-23-2020, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjshively

2005 Alpine Coach - 36 ft FDDS
Hey Paul65k

I looked at your photo and I have a couple of questions.
I see you have two Orion TR Smart 12/24 - 15 but in the picture I can't even see any wires hook to them. What is the thing with the red tape? What coach do you have? You wiring looks nothing like mine. Is it possible for you to furnish a diagram as to how you have it all wired? Maybe I'm asking too much - I'm just trying to figure it all out.
Hey Jussen

About the alternator - I have a Delco Remy 28si 200 amp alternator. I talked with the tech guy at Delco Remy and he said the alternator will shut itself down before it melts. As in the scenario where a lithium-ion battery is asking for more amperage than the alternator can supply. The alternator will shut itself down so as not to fail. He said to check with the battery manufacture for DC controller recommendations.
I'm looking for all suggestions & ideas before I screw it up. Attached is the Delco Remy 28si hookup.
Thanks --- TJ

Maybe your Delco is new technology, on my coach tried charging lithiums directly from alternator at idle. Did not have a amprobe. but did shoot the alternator with a ir gun and it went from ambient to 250 f in 5 minutes. Most alternators are only about 50 or so percent efficient, the rest is heat, and at low speeds, the built in fan cannot dissipate heat fast enough. I have a 2020 sprinter van with lithium, and tried the same thing, on 200 a/h's of lithium, alternator immediately went to 120 amps from a 160 amp alternator. Installed a 30 amp dc-dc charger, don't know if it will shutdown or not, just didn't want to buy another alternator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

paul65k · 08-24-2020, 12:18 AM

My DR 200 failed within 3 months of installing my lithium batteries without any modification......now maybe it was on the verge of failing at it was 5 years old but..........I don't think so!

I replaced the alternator with a 240A version, for good measure but with the new set-up I feel much more confident that I won't have another alternator failure anytime soon.

Hayduke · 08-24-2020, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul65k

My DR 200 failed within 3 months of installing my lithium batteries without any modification......now maybe it was on the verge of failing at it was 5 years old but..........I don't think so!

I replaced the alternator with a 240A version, for good measure but with the new set-up I feel much more confident that I won't have another alternator failure anytime soon.

I didn't read this....

la la la

hmmmm lithiums... original alternator?
I'll keep running the generator to make sure they don't need anything from the alternator for awhile longer.

jcussen · 08-24-2020, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke

I didn't read this....

la la la

hmmmm lithiums... original alternator?
I'll keep running the generator to make sure they don't need anything from the alternator for awhile longer.

OR buy some panels, unlike lead acid, lithium will take a full bulk charge till they are close to 100% SOC, they will charge up about 4 times quicker than equivalent lead acid.

Hayduke · 08-24-2020, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcussen

OR buy some panels, unlike lead acid, lithium will take a full bulk charge till they are close to 100% SOC, they will charge up about 4 times quicker than equivalent lead acid.

We plan to add solar and upgrade some of the other electrical systems on board. We got the lithium batteries ahead of schedule because the lead acid batteries that came with the coach were no good and needed replacing.

paul65k · 08-24-2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke

We plan to add solar and upgrade some of the other electrical systems on board. We got the lithium batteries ahead of schedule because the lead acid batteries that came with the coach were no good and needed replacing.

In all seriousness you should disable the alternator charging to the house batteries and install at least one DC-DC charger sooner rather than later.....or even just disable the alternator charging to the house batteries

Hayduke · 08-24-2020, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul65k

In all seriousness you should disable the alternator charging to the house batteries and install at least one DC-DC charger sooner rather than later.....or even just disable the alternator charging to the house batteries

I tried to find , without success, the wire from the alternator to the batteries. I've recently been informed the positive lug I see in the battery bay goes to the other side. It might be there. I need to look again. I'll try to make time before this next move.

twinboat · 08-24-2020, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke

I tried to find , without success, the wire from the alternator to the batteries. I've recently been informed the positive lug I see in the battery bay goes to the other side. It might be there. I need to look again. I'll try to make time before this next move.

A 2005 should have an isolation/boost solenoid. Remove one small wire from it and you've isolated the house battery from the alternator.
Push the boost switch on and off to find it, listen for the clunk.

Hayduke · 08-24-2020, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

A 2005 should have an isolation/boost solenoid. Remove one small wire from it and you've isolated the house battery from the alternator.
Push the boost switch on and off to find it, listen for the clunk.

So I'm hearing...

Have my wife in the driver's seat.
Turn on key.
Have her turn the battery booster switch on while I am in the battery bay.
Follow my ears.

It clicks on for 30 seconds, right?
That same relay is the alternator feed to the house batteries?

I have studied my wiring diagrams and didn't see that. I'll have to pull them back and take another look.

paul65k · 08-24-2020, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke

So I'm hearing...

Have my wife in the driver's seat.
Turn on key.
Have her turn the battery booster switch on while I am in the battery bay.
Follow my ears.

It clicks on for 30 seconds, right?
That same relay is the alternator feed to the house batteries?

I have studied my wiring diagrams and didn't see that. I'll have to pull them back and take another look.

On my coach that boostswitch/selonoid is the mechanism that keeps the Chassis batteries charged when camped for a period of time, but I di know that some go both ways.

Our 2001 was pre-vansco and had a separate battery isolator that had a common feed from the alternator and outputs to both house and chassis battery banks ....wish I could be more help on the Vansco set-up.