Replacement Vansco

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

You got it Jim! We 2004s have to stick together.

Easy there. My thinking on not programming them is that with future replacements being limited to:
1) “Repairable” units, which is something EM has been dabbling with and only works on 2005 and newer coaches.
2) Modules from salvaged coaches, theoretically more 2005+ modules could be found.
3) Modules from owners who have 2 spares.

It may actually benefit 2004 owners if there is a supply of unprogrammed units available, rather than having a majority of them programmed for 2005+ coaches. A 2005+ owner, with 2 unprogrammed spares, could be willing to part with one, knowing that finding another spare, or getting one reprogrammed might be a possibility.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Easy there. My thinking on not programming them is that with future replacements being limited to:
1) “Repairable” units, which is something EM has been dabbling with and only works on 2005 and newer coaches.
2) Modules from salvaged coaches, theoretically more 2005+ modules could be found.
3) Modules from owners who have 2 spares.

It may actually benefit 2004 owners if there is a supply of unprogrammed units available, rather than having a majority of them programmed for 2005+ coaches. A 2005+ owner, with 2 unprogrammed spares, could be willing to part with one, knowing that finding another spare, or getting one reprogrammed might be a possibility.

I agree completely that unprogrammed units would benefit 2004 owners, but so would a pre-programmed 2004 unit. That was my point as I have a 2004 coach.


Personally, I would love it if all these new units were left unprogrammed, then we 2004 owners would be in the same pool of the needy, and there would be a fairly decent supply of units available to everyone. That doesn't look to happen as the recommendation is to use the new units to insure function and warranty.


As I see it, now that there are many replacements/spares in hand, there will be few failures. You know, the old "I carry a spare but I've never needed it." Anyway, that's what we all hope!

[Jeep401]

Originally Posted by terry w

Attachment 335818

i copied the instructions i used, from the aca library under chassis and brakes
vansco vmm.

Sorry this is upside down, you can see why i was nervous when i programmed the new vmm.

x

[Hayduke]

I didn't pay attention to the Alpine forum/group much for awhile and completely missed that final run. :(

Now I'm worried about the longevity of my coach.

[Terry W]

I am not sure how many of us went into this thinking we were forming a pool of sorts. I don't see this as being a decent supply of units available to everyone, I might be mistaken.

At the risk of sounding like, "I got mine and you're SOL", I bought a spare so that I would have one at hand and not have to find a used or rebuilt one if there is even one available.

So far I haven't seen or heard of any available rebuilt/reprogrammed units. I might be out of the loop on this.

If they are in fact available then I don't think a loaner pool would be necessary. I would think it would nice to get the word out if there are any .

Now, if the used units can be had I can see where I might loan out my spare until a replacement could be had. Long lead time?? In that case I would want my original unit back and not the rebuilt/used unit. If rebuilds are not available then it would no longer be a loan, it would be a sale or a gift.

I believe I read there is a way of eliminating the VMM using a bunch of relays etc. If so it's beyond me. Might be an urban legend!

I will also say that I was surprised at how few of us placed an order from the "last run", I understand that it's a chunk of dough. I believe there were 125 or so units ordered and I recall hearing that about half, maybe more, of the entire Alpine production uses Vanscos.

Terry

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Terry W

I am not sure how many of us went into this thinking we were forming a pool of sorts. I don't see this as being a decent supply of units available to everyone, I might be mistaken.

At the risk of sounding like, "I got mine and you're SOL", I bought a spare so that I would have one at hand and not have to find a used or rebuilt one if there is even one available.

So far I haven't seen or heard of any available rebuilt/reprogrammed units. I might be out of the loop on this.

If they are in fact available then I don't think a loaner pool would be necessary. I would think it would nice to get the word out if there are any .

Now, if the used units can be had I can see where I might loan out my spare until a replacement could be had. Long lead time?? In that case I would want my original unit back and not the rebuilt/used unit. If rebuilds are not available then it would no longer be a loan, it would be a sale or a gift.

I believe I read there is a way of eliminating the VMM using a bunch of relays etc. If so it's beyond me. Might be an urban legend!

I will also say that I was surprised at how few of us placed an order from the "last run", I understand that it's a chunk of dough. I believe there were 125 or so units ordered and I recall hearing that about half, maybe more, of the entire Alpine production uses Vanscos.

Terry

Agree with everything you posted.


I also purchased in order to have a spare, given the demise of new units on the horizon. I expressed only a "wish" that all the new units remained unprogrammed so there would be some available, period. Not for a loan necessarily, but available.


I did do some research before the final run was announced, and there is a company (cannot remember the name but I found it on-line) that rebuilds the VMM2820 and does not change any programming of the unit. Don't know how good they are, but it's out there.


Regarding the number of units in the final run, my guess is that those Alpine owners who do not frequent this sub-forum or this site had no clue. And I emphasize the word "frequent."


Overall, it comes down this, IMO. The Vansco units do not fail often. Early units, circa 2005, had a flaw that WRV and Vansco addressed in a recall, but of course, not all were replaced. Since the flaw was corrected, the number of failures are few, but if it's in your coach, you're stuck until a replacement is located. Up until it was announced that no more VMM 2820s would be made, it was a time sensitive inconvenience. Now, it could be "fatal."

[Terry W]

I am glad to hear that there is a company out there that rebuilds the VMMs. I know they can be had from some bus wrecking yards but I don't know for sure if they can be wiped clean and reprogrammed.

This is one of those issues that was really difficult to get the word out about. I feel for guys like Hayduke who was unaware of the last run. The rebuild company might be a viable option.

I am wondering if the last run was in fact just to fill the orders or if JCA may have requested a few extras just to have a little stock on hand.

In retrospect I wish I'd bought a couple of extras just to have available for a couple of owners who may have missed last call and only found out about it recently.

Terry

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by Terry W

I am glad to hear that there is a company out there that rebuilds the VMMs. I know they can be had from some bus wrecking yards but I don't know for sure if they can be wiped clean and reprogrammed.

This is one of those issues that was really difficult to get the word out about. I feel for guys like Hayduke who was unaware of the last run. The rebuild company might be a viable option.

I am wondering if the last run was in fact just to fill the orders or if JCA may have requested a few extras just to have a little stock on hand.

In retrospect I wish I'd bought a couple of extras just to have available for a couple of owners who may have missed last call and only found out about it recently.

Terry

I did email JCA and inquire about any warranty on the new units, thinking that there may be extras ordered by JCA for that very reason. I haven't heard back, but I know they are busy trying to fill the orders and get them out. I will post any information I receive.


BTW, here is the link to the website of the repair company. Looks promising but I have no personal experience.
https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/VANSCO/VANSCO/233660/

[Terry W]

Thanks, I'll check it out. Supposed to get my unit is a few days.

[Kid Gloves]

I just reviewed some of the old emails and believe the following summary to be reasonably accurate.

The topic of production ending was originally discussed on this forum. Once the ACA became aware of the situation, a mass email was sent out to all members. Further communication on the subject was then handled almost exclusively via email between members.

I believe the 120-ish number is accurate. The last spreadsheet that I could dig up showed just over 100. I do recall hearing or reading that the final number was 121 or 123? The spreadsheet showed that 24 owners had ordered 2 units. Without a doubt, some who ordered 1, already had one.

I’d speculate that of the ~1400 coaches produced, maybe 800 are VMM equipped. That’s 1600 units. I’d speculate further, that there are, or will be, at least 160 units in a drawer or storage bay soon. If so, we’re equipped to handle a 10% failure rate and I’d ultimately speculate that that is, ok, I won’t actually say it. Perhaps the spreadsheet can be updated to reflect the total number of units known to be possessed by all ACA members.

Feedback from Radwell is that they have been somewhere between less than successful and unsuccessful in repairing failed units. EngineerMike has reportedly been somewhat successful in repairing or reprogramming units from either Alpines or MCI buses, or both. His reported success only applies to 2005 and newer coaches.

The warranty question was asked of JCA, last November. I did not see a response to the question while skimming through the emails.

In a nutshell, I’d say that there is, will soon be, a very good supply available. And they are certainly more readily available than at any time in the past.

[whalepirot]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

I did email JCA... haven't heard back]

Par, in my experience.

I saw NO warranty info in any of the 5 boxes shipped here and have no idea how to initiate a warranty from a non-responsive Co., esp on foreign soil; further with likely zero CC recourse.

I may be talkin myself into programming it now, as any warranty prospects diminish daily. The generic VMM manual I skimmed thru, refers to a PC method of accessing the unit. It requires, of course, an interface device which is quite likely extremely rare.

Of the 18 units sent here, the only one I unwrapped was mine; all others remained factory bubble-wrapped. Perhaps I should post a copy of the FedEx delivery receipt, as some proof of date received.

Now, if the last 3 owners would get their units...........

[whalepirot]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

has anyone programmed their new VMM... which directions did you follow and how did it go?

Yes; went well. Hardest part was deciding whether to program or not! As we discussed, I opted to get off the fence, avoiding 'slivers'!

Vansco Vmm Programming & Replacement Instructions

If replacing the front VMM, extend the gen slide for access to the nuts/bolts holding it to the firewall.

Understand ALL all of the instructions before starting with #1.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 - Turn ignition key to ON position & leave ON. (Chassis and Coach disconnects- ON)
2 - Turn OFF chassis (engine) disconnect (battery compartment) Interconnect OFF, if installed; (SE & APEX). Verify: Both VMMs should be ‘dark’ (unpowered).
3 - Unplug FRONT VMM (4 plugs).
4 - Do Not unbolt the front VMM.
5 - Plug-in new front VMM – let it hang in front of the installed unit [rectangular plugs click when fully inserted].
6 - Turn ON chassis disconnect and leave on for five minutes (This loads software)
****STEP 7 IS VERY IMPORTANT ****
7 - Turn OFF chassis disconnect For Two Minutes, But Not More Than Three Minutes then.
8 - Turn ON chassis disconnect again; leave ON for five minutes. (Loads ladder logic).
9 - Start the engine. If it starts, this procedure worked and you’re finished the programming the VMM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not program a next VMM until the FRONT one works. If it does not work repeat above procedure for the FRONT VMM until it works. If something does not work try programming again. (Ref. step 11)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 - To program the next VMM, turn OFF chassis disconnect, repeating steps 2 thru 8, else go to Step 11..

11 - Ensure engine starts and check operation of all chassis functions:
HWH, Slideouts, Jacks, Heater Blower, Headlights, Windshield Fans, Turn Signals, Brake Lights, etc.
All these items and more are controlled by the Vansco VMM’s

12 - Unbolt old VMM’s, and install in the new ones, as desired.


>> Remember: Both VMM’s have the same program & ladder logic, therefore they can be switched back and forth. If the problem follows the VMM – then it has a fault. If the problem remains in the front or back – then the problem is ‘downstream’ [in the wiring, chassis grounds or other chassis items].


Thanks to EM, Terry W., Larry and Finley. We had 4 similar procedures; essentially following what Terry had done some time ago.

doc file of above attached.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by whalepirot

Yes; went well. Hardest part was deciding whether to program or not! As we discussed, I opted to get off the fence, avoiding 'slivers'!

Vansco Vmm Programming & Replacement Instructions

If replacing the front VMM, extend the gen slide for access to the nuts/bolts holding it to the firewall.

Understand ALL all of the instructions before starting with #1.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
1 - Turn ignition key to ON position & leave ON. (Chassis and Coach disconnects- ON)
2 - Turn OFF chassis (engine) disconnect (battery compartment) Interconnect OFF, if installed; (SE & APEX). Verify: Both VMMs should be ‘dark’ (unpowered).
3 - Unplug FRONT VMM (4 plugs).
4 - Do Not unbolt the front VMM.
5 - Plug-in new front VMM – let it hang in front of the installed unit [rectangular plugs click when fully inserted].
6 - Turn ON chassis disconnect and leave on for five minutes (This loads software)
****STEP 7 IS VERY IMPORTANT ****
7 - Turn OFF chassis disconnect For Two Minutes, But Not More Than Three Minutes then.
8 - Turn ON chassis disconnect again; leave ON for five minutes. (Loads ladder logic).
9 - Start the engine. If it starts, this procedure worked and you’re finished the programming the VMM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not program a next VMM until the FRONT one works. If it does not work repeat above procedure for the FRONT VMM until it works. If something does not work try programming again. (Ref. step 11)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 - To program the next VMM, turn OFF chassis disconnect, repeating steps 2 thru 8, else go to Step 11..

11 - Ensure engine starts and check operation of all chassis functions:
HWH, Slideouts, Jacks, Heater Blower, Headlights, Windshield Fans, Turn Signals, Brake Lights, etc.
All these items and more are controlled by the Vansco VMM’s

12 - Unbolt old VMM’s, and install in the new ones, as desired.


>> Remember: Both VMM’s have the same program & ladder logic, therefore they can be switched back and forth. If the problem follows the VMM – then it has a fault. If the problem remains in the front or back – then the problem is ‘downstream’ [in the wiring, chassis grounds or other chassis items].


Thanks to EM, Terry W., Larry and Finley. We had 4 similar procedures; essentially following what Terry had done some time ago.

doc file of above attached.

Thanks whalepirot, just what I was hoping to hear! congrats on a successful programming.

[Terry W]

Originally Posted by Jim A

I plan to program the new unit, and use it on the coach now. And keep the existing one as the spare. I want to know the new unit is good, and properly programmed. I don't want to do that on the side of the road somewhere. If I screw up the programming, I want to know that NOW! I just got mine and have not programmed it yet, so I can't help on the procedure. Thanks to Kid Gloves for the "stud mount" suggestion.

Ljwt330, please put me on your "will loan to" list!

I picked my new unit up yesterday, thanks Bill and Jim.

I think Jim has a good idea about putting the new unit in service and holding onto the existing one as a spare.

One suggestion I would make is to install the new untried unit in the front position. I don't know about the 34' and 36' but the rear is actually easier to change on the 40', all done from the wheel well. The studs/bolts on the front unit are a challenge by yourself until you get them reversed/replaced. Replacing is well worth the effort and nice to do it at your leisure.

My thinking on using the new unit on the front is that when my old one failed it affected headlights, driver fans, gauges and a couple of other things I can't recall. Mine wasn't a total failure it was a reboot situation, all that stuff would go off for maybe 10 seconds at the most and then come back on, no harm no foul. I drove many miles like this on a trip, in the daylight.

When I swapped the unit to the rear it would act the same way, but, the big issue there was that it would shut the engine off and it would have to be restarted, it didn't just come back on. If that happened you would be dead in the water for however long it took to restart, if it did!! Could be a big deal on the freeway.

In the meantime you would have no power assist for your steering, your brakes may or may not work on the hydro boost and brake light, taillights and turn signals probably affected. Not sure if it would affect the trans??

This could happen with any unit, but at least I know my existing unit is working as it should and hasn't let me down. It's a known quantity.

I will install mine in the front and will do the same with my brothers and hopefully all will be well.

Just a thought, Terry