Replacing Leveling Jack Springs (HWH 610)

[andy29847]

My driver's rear jack wouldn't stay in the stored position. Occasionally, when I was 1 to 2 hours into a drive, the "jacks down" alarm would go off. The alarm created some panic the first couple of times (I had visions of it dragging on the ground). Sometimes the jack would return to the stored position using the HWH panel (you have to stop for this to work). Lately, I have had to get out and use a 2x4 to help the jack up. Laying on the road in the summer heat with traffic going by is NOT any fun. Anyway, I determined that I need to replace the springs.

First issue is buying the right spring. I found the chart below. Some people call HWH and let them name the spring. My spring is part #R3847. I ordered replacements from ebay. I saw the cheapest springs were not brand name. I paid the extra and got HWH springs.


I looked at some video from youtube before I started work. The best one I saw recommended extending the jack, using wooden clothes pins to snap onto the springs and space out the coils, retracting the jack, then removing the jack plate, then removing the springs. I didn't have any clothes pins but I had a saw and an old pine 1x4 that I cut into 1/8" thick blocks.

An important rule is if you are going to work under the coach, you have to build youself some "room to live". I use ramps made from 2"x12". The ramps give me enough room to get under the coach even when the jacks are up and the air is out.


Extending the jacks while the coach is on the ramps gives me ~1/8" between coils.


To space out the coils, I used 1/8" x 2 1/2" blocks.


When the jacks are retracted, the wood blocks make the spring long enough to just slip the jack plate off the jack. You will probably have to use a lever (like my 2x4) to assist the jack to full retract. Note in the picture below that the jack is still down a little.


The springs area little figity to get out of the top hanger. Be patient and don't hammer on it. WEAR GLOVES!


You have to bend the new spring to get the wood blocks in between the coils. The video I watch recommended using a vice. I used the conduit strap you see in the picture. WEAR GLOVES!


I used slightly thinner wood blocks for the new spring. I hoped I would only need this first row, but you can see the spring needs some more blocks on the other side to straighten out.


Here is a spring ready for install. I used some shorter wood blocks on this one because I was running out of wood.


After you have the wood blocks placed in both new springs, hang the springs on the jack, put the lower hooks of the springs on the jack plate, use your 2x4 to push the jack back to full retract (this is easy if your control panel is set to "store"), and slide the jack plate back over the end of the jack. I used enough wood blocks so that my jack plate fit on the end of the jack without any muscle work. Extend your jacks again and remove the wood blocks. Voila, you did it!

[Ray,IN]

"Room to live" is exactly right! Some years ago in N. Indiana an RV technician was smothered when the coach he was underneath settled on him and he could not breathe or talk. Co-workers found him_too late.

[RVPioneer]

Azpete (Paul Maddox) made a lever/pry bar that allows him to change a spring in about 8 seconds. He’s posted a description, maybe with a diagram, somewhere on this forum.

Did the new springs fix the problem?

[rodekyll]

Just a redneck DIY fix if this happens on the road:

Extend jacks.
Run those cheap hose clamps around adjacent spring coils (about 6 clamps, +/-)
Raise the jacks as far as it wants to go
tighten the clamps. The spring will shorten and give more retract tension.

I did this to a spring a year or so back when a spring failed on a trip. I think the PO had bought one a coil too long. I've got the new spring but so far the fix is holding, and replacing it looks like a real PITA. I've got another jack that also looks like it's got a longer spring. I'll try the above procedure to install it.

[AKOne]

Andy, that was great timing! I was just about to order springs and needed to see how others performed the replacement. I have a left rear jack that likes to drop down about an inch now and then.

[RVPioneer]

My understanding of the HWH system is that once the springs fully retract the jacks, the system shuts down. Weak springs, or dirty pistons, can cause a jack to fail to fully retract. Hydraulic pressure will cause the jack to extend.

[n2zon]

Originally Posted by andy29847

My driver's rear jack wouldn't stay in the stored position. Occasionally, when I was 1 to 2 hours into a drive, the "jacks down" alarm would go off. The alarm created some panic the first couple of times (I had visions of it dragging on the ground). Sometimes the jack would return to the stored position using the HWH panel (you have to stop for this to work). Lately, I have had to get out and use a 2x4 to help the jack up. Laying on the road in the summer heat with traffic going by is NOT any fun. Anyway, I determined that I need to replace the springs.

First issue is buying the right spring. I found the chart below. Some people call HWH and let them name the spring. My spring is part #R3847. I ordered replacements from ebay. I saw the cheapest springs were not brand name. I paid the extra and got HWH springs.


I looked at some video from youtube before I started work. The best one I saw recommended extending the jack, using wooden clothes pins to snap onto the springs and space out the coils, retracting the jack, then removing the jack plate, then removing the springs. I didn't have any clothes pins but I had a saw and an old pine 1x4 that I cut into 1/8" thick blocks.

An important rule is if you are going to work under the coach, you have to build youself some "room to live". I use ramps made from 2"x12". The ramps give me enough room to get under the coach even when the jacks are up and the air is out.


Extending the jacks while the coach is on the ramps gives me ~1/8" between coils.


To space out the coils, I used 1/8" x 2 1/2" blocks.


When the jacks are retracted, the wood blocks make the spring long enough to just slip the jack plate off the jack. You will probably have to use a lever (like my 2x4) to assist the jack to full retract. Note in the picture below that the jack is still down a little.


The springs area little figity to get out of the top hanger. Be patient and don't hammer on it. WEAR GLOVES!


You have to bend the new spring to get the wood blocks in between the coils. The video I watch recommended using a vice. I used the conduit strap you see in the picture. WEAR GLOVES!


I used slightly thinner wood blocks for the new spring. I hoped I would only need this first row, but you can see the spring needs some more blocks on the other side to straighten out.


Here is a spring ready for install. I used some shorter wood blocks on this one because I was running out of wood.


After you have the wood blocks placed in both new springs, hang the springs on the jack, put the lower hooks of the springs on the jack plate, use your 2x4 to push the jack back to full retract (this is easy if your control panel is set to "store"), and slide the jack plate back over the end of the jack. I used enough wood blocks so that my jack plate fit on the end of the jack without any muscle work. Extend your jacks again and remove the wood blocks. Voila, you did it!

Thanks much. I'm going to remember this trick to make it easier to manage the spring tension in this and other contexts!

[rodekyll]

Originally Posted by RVPioneer

My understanding of the HWH system is that once the springs fully retract the jacks, the system shuts down. Weak springs, or dirty pistons, can cause a jack to fail to fully retract. Hydraulic pressure will cause the jack to extend.

I don't know a lot about HWH, and I'm trying to learn. So I ask sincerely: My 610 system does not engage the pump the retract the gear. My understanding is that there is a solenoid for each fluid circuit that simply opens an on/off dump valve and allows first the weight of the rig and then the strength of the springs to push the fluid out of the cylinder. The pump is chambered so the extension/retraction of one circuit doesn't affect any other. Unless I am autoparking the jacks I need to hold a circuit's dump button for the duration.

So . . . If the pump isn't cycling (it's shut down), AND the jacks completely retracted (travel light is green), where did the pressure that extended them come from? Why did it only drop the gear an inch or two and not all the way? Why only one piston? Could the extending force be the affected jack's piston weight acting against the combination of a leaky dump valve and a slack spring?

Another way to ask it -- If I manually push up a completely springless piston, in the absence of pump pressure, could I expect it to stay up or are the springs needed to hold it in place?

[andy29847]

Originally Posted by rodekyll

I don't know a lot about HWH, and I'm trying to learn. So I ask sincerely: My 610 system does not engage the pump the retract the gear. My understanding is that there is a solenoid for each fluid circuit that simply opens an on/off dump valve and allows first the weight of the rig and then the strength of the springs to push the fluid out of the cylinder. The pump is chambered so the extension/retraction of one circuit doesn't affect any other. Unless I am autoparking the jacks I need to hold a circuit's dump button for the duration.

So . . . If the pump isn't cycling (it's shut down), AND the jacks completely retracted (travel light is green), where did the pressure that extended them come from? Why did it only drop the gear an inch or two and not all the way? Why only one piston? Could the extending force be the affected jack's piston weight acting against the combination of a leaky dump valve and a slack spring?

Another way to ask it -- If I manually push up a completely springless piston, in the absence of pump pressure, could I expect it to stay up or are the springs needed to hold it in place?

The HWH system needs several minutes to complete the "store" process. This means that you leave the system on, even after the green "travel" light comes on. I understand that fluid is returning back to the tank during this time period. Failure to let the HWH system finish the store cycle will probably result in a jacks down alarm under way. I have read where some motorhome owners execute the store sequence when getting underway, even when they have not had the jacks down.

My driver's rear jack has been a problem for some time. It retracted slow, and often I would have to help it finish the retract cycle using my trusty 2x4. This is the big reason for replacing the springs. I assumed that the jack was dropping down under way because the springs were weak. The real reason may be fluid expansion. I know that when I helped the jack back to the retract position during a trip, I didn't have anymore trouble. I also know that when I removed the springs, the jack came down several inches. I am not sure what conclusions to draw from this.

[rodekyll]

I don't know either -- that's why I'm asking.

IIRC, If I push the autolevel or park buttons the HWH controller takes over and does the rest -- including the shutdown. My power lights go out and the panel goes dark when it's level. The power light goes out and only the "travel" light is on when they're properly retracted. If I try to start the rig with the travel light not green it shrieks like my ex.

[andy29847]

Originally Posted by rodekyll

IIRC, If I push the autolevel or park buttons the HWH controller takes over and does the rest -- including the shutdown. My power lights go out and the panel goes dark when it's level. The power light goes out and only the "travel" light is on when they're properly retracted. If I try to start the rig with the travel light not green it shrieks like my ex.

All control panels are not the same. Mine looks like this:



This is the HWH retract procedure.


On my coach, there is a significant amount of time (~5 min) between the green "travel light" coming on and the red flashing "jack storage" light going off. I start driving when the green "travel light" comes on.

[andy29847]

In the FWIW category, the springs I removed were 14" and 14 1/4" respectively. The new springs are 13 3/8".

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by andy29847

The HWH system needs several minutes to complete the "store" process. This means that you leave the system on, even after the green "travel" light comes on. I understand that fluid is returning back to the tank during this time period. Failure to let the HWH system finish the store cycle will probably result in a jacks down alarm under way. I have read where some motorhome owners execute the store sequence when getting underway, even when they have not had the jacks down.

My driver's rear jack has been a problem for some time. It retracted slow, and often I would have to help it finish the retract cycle using my trusty 2x4. This is the big reason for replacing the springs. I assumed that the jack was dropping down under way because the springs were weak. The real reason may be fluid expansion. I know that when I helped the jack back to the retract position during a trip, I didn't have anymore trouble. I also know that when I removed the springs, the jack came down several inches. I am not sure what conclusions to draw from this.

Your description is correct. The jack will activate the switch showing the jack is retracted before pressure in the hose has been relieved completely.
Normal road jouncing then encourages a jack to drop enough to activate the jack down alarm.
I always allow 1 minute before turning off the panel. I've never had a jacks down alarm since.
BTW, the springs are the originals.

[wolfe10]

Do NOT turn off the panel.


Let it go through its "stow cycle" and it will turn itself off.


As the day warms up, the fluid on those LONG lines expands. A significant issue if the stow cycle is interrupted.