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Old 08-30-2020, 07:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Steve and Linda's APEX View Post
Ernie,
Have you load tested your batteries?
No, but at the house connected to 50amp service we had no problems. Now that I have it in storage with silverleaf programmed to 20amps, inverter on to run the fridge, but almost eveything off, the batteries drained and all was dead.

Doesn't the shore power keep the batteries topped off? Or is the fridge drawing to much to keep up with need to keep the batteries topped off?

What is the best way to shore a coach for a few months and then how to restore it a few days before its needed?
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:49 PM   #44
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No, but at the house connected to 50amp service we had no problems. Now that I have it in storage with silverleaf programmed to 20amps, inverter on to run the fridge, but almost eveything off, the batteries drained and all was dead.



Doesn't the shore power keep the batteries topped off? Or is the fridge drawing to much to keep up with need to keep the batteries topped off?



What is the best way to shore a coach for a few months and then how to restore it a few days before its needed?


Ernie,
You need to load check both your chassis and house batteries. Be prepared to replace. My chassis batteries failed in 4 days. All of your systems may be functioning as programmed and designed. You can cancel the generator auto start on the Silverleaf. I’m thinking that your original GFI tripping issue is due to voltage drop from fail(ed) batteries. With 20a shore power you should be able to leave it indefinitely as long as your batteries are good. Right now, our coach is plugged into 20a shore power with the charger armed. My current draw on the Silverleaf is 1A with the refrigerator running. I am anxious to hear of your battery condition.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:04 PM   #45
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Is standby the same as armed? My charger says standby. Also should I leave the autocharger in standby as well? What is the exerciser?

So if the batteries are good, then I should be able to use the the 20amp service with the inverter on and the fridge?

When I test the load on the batteries, do I need to disconnect them from each other?
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:27 PM   #46
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Something doesn't sound right...
Plugged into 20 amp plug should be more than enough to keep the fridge going and keep the batteries topped off.
Charger should be on not standby....
I would NEVER run the fridge on the batteries/inverter.
I do leave my inverter on and in standby just in case I lose shore power.
If you are not charging and the fridge is on on the inverter that's your problem.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:48 PM   #47
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Is standby the same as armed? My charger says standby. Also should I leave the autocharger in standby as well? What is the exerciser?

So if the batteries are good, then I should be able to use the the 20amp service with the inverter on and the fridge?

When I test the load on the batteries, do I need to disconnect them from each other?


Ernie,
Does your Silverleaf show up on your overhead TV? If not, which TV do you have. If you have a Dell, do you have the remote? Do you have a Silverleaf remote? If you have all of this stuff, I can talk you through how to see what is happening with your coach as well as how to change various parameters.
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Old 08-30-2020, 09:16 PM   #48
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Some thoughts on the recents developments.

The charger in “stand by”would explain the dead batteries.
The inverter would shut off on low batteries.
Not sure how either of the above would cause a ground fault condition.
AGS would start generator on low voltage signal from batteries.

It is believed that none of the above settings or conditions have changed since the GFI outlet originally started tripping, yet the outlet has not tripped. What has changed is, the inverter setting to 20A and some circuits were turned off.

I’m curious why the refrigerator is being left on while the coach is in storage for a few months. Given the current situation with a somewhat unreliable source of power, there may be some spoiled food in the near future.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:07 PM   #49
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Ernie,
Does your Silverleaf show up on your overhead TV? If not, which TV do you have. If you have a Dell, do you have the remote? Do you have a Silverleaf remote? If you have all of this stuff, I can talk you through how to see what is happening with your coach as well as how to change various parameters.
Yes, I have the remote and can see it on my tv. Let's hook up tomorrow, give a time when it's convenient for you. I am back in TX, central time. I just sent you a text.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:09 PM   #50
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Something doesn't sound right...
Plugged into 20 amp plug should be more than enough to keep the fridge going and keep the batteries topped off.
Charger should be on not standby....
I would NEVER run the fridge on the batteries/inverter.
I do leave my inverter on and in standby just in case I lose shore power.
If you are not charging and the fridge is on on the inverter that's your problem.
I didn't think I was because I was on shore power. I thought shore power trumped the inverter. Somehow the shore power is not doing what it's suppose to. It did however, on my 50amp home service. Not sure what I changed other than dialing down the silverleaf to 20amp service.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:18 PM   #51
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Some thoughts on the recents developments.

The charger in “stand by”would explain the dead batteries.
The inverter would shut off on low batteries.
Not sure how either of the above would cause a ground fault condition.
AGS would start generator on low voltage signal from batteries.

It is believed that none of the above settings or conditions have changed since the GFI outlet originally started tripping, yet the outlet has not tripped. What has changed is, the inverter setting to 20A and some circuits were turned off.

I’m curious why the refrigerator is being left on while the coach is in storage for a few months. Given the current situation with a somewhat unreliable source of power, there may be some spoiled food in the near future.
You are correct, so the AGS (what is that) would start the gen on low voltage. I guess that is to charge the batteries. So that posses another question. Is that safe in a closed in storage?

So the inverter went off, (also the inverter indicated "low bat" which shut down the fridge. But I thought the shore power trumped the inverter, so the fridge should have stayed on. All this happened because somehow the shore power is not charging the batteries?

As for the fridge, I was only keeping it on for a few days after this issue was resolved and tested (it was empty). Then I would have turned it off and back on a day or 2 before our next trip. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be surprised before out next trip.

To be clear, when I plug into shore power, the charger should read "on" until the batteries are topped of, then go into standby? The autocharger should read "on", so that the charger works? Is that what I am suppose to see? The fact that the charger says "standby" on shore power doesn't make sense, especially that the batteries are low as indicated by the inverter showing low bat. Also, in my previous pics you see 10.7 volts. Yikes.
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Old 08-31-2020, 09:43 AM   #52
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Have you VERIFIED that you do have shore power to the coach? Other things that are not on inverter circuits work?



If so, next step is to verify that the inverter is getting 120 VAC IN.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:02 AM   #53
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Have you VERIFIED that you do have shore power to the coach? Other things that are not on inverter circuits work?



If so, next step is to verify that the inverter is getting 120 VAC IN.
Well not exactly. It's plugged into short power, so I assumed it was getting the juice it needed to keep everything up and running. Before I turned off the ac breaker, the unit came on and then tripped the shore power breaker, so I guess it was getting juice.

Is there another way to check both that the coach is getting shore power and then that the inverter is also getting power?

But having said that what charges the batteries, is it the inverter? Or does shore power go directly into a charging system, etc?
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:07 AM   #54
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The inverter/charger (it is both) charges the batteries when it gets 120 VAC from either shore power or generator.


The inverter switch does NOT have to be on for the charge function to work.


I would start by verifying 120 VAC at the 20 amp outlet.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:21 AM   #55
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AGS is Automatic Generator Start. I would not recommend running the generator in an enclosed space. The exhaust could be vented to the outside. However, you ultimately want to sort out these power issues at which point the 20A outlet will prove sufficient for your coach while in storage.

I would recommend disabling the AGS feature while the coach is stored inside.

I’m interested to hear the results after the Silverleaf seminar.
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Old 08-31-2020, 10:23 AM   #56
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Hi Ernie-

With the assortment of adapters and cables and the surge protector you have multiple points for current leakage.

One thing about "surge protectors" is that *most* of them have internal components called "MOVs" (metal oxide varistors) that are self-sacrificing - when a surge or significant over-voltage incident occurs, the MOVs protect by shunting the voltage to ground and the MOVs fail as part of that process. This creates some very small leakage between Line and ground and will trip a GFCI outlet or circuit breaker.

Also note that leakage currents are "cumulative". GFCI outlets will trip at 5ma of current difference between line and neutral, so if you have 3 devices on the same circuit, that each leak 2ma of current, together they will trip a GFCI. If on of them were a portable appliance you could unplug it and the GFCI would not trip.

Here's where I would start... plug in your 20 amp cord to the GFCI outlet. Use one of the "3 light outlet testers" from a big box store to verify presence of voltage and correct wiring. All good? Then plug in your next adapter, the 20 amp to 30 amp (or 50 or whatever). Does the GFCI trip? Yes? Bad adapter. No? Plug in next adapter cable, rinse and repeat. When you get to your 50 amp cord from the coach, before you plug it in, turn off every circuit breaker in your coach. Turn off the inverter/charger. Plug in your shore power cord. Does the GFCI trip? Yes? You have a problem between the plug and up to your automatic transfer switch. No? Start with your inverter/charger, turn it on. Does the GFCI trip? Yes? Likely bad inverter or wiring is compromised (passes through 120V when on shore power rather than inverting, also so it can charge coach batteries). No? Begin by restoring the individual circuit breakers in your coach to the 'on' position. One at a time, start with the refrigerator... until you get to circuit or appliance that makes the GFCI trip.

If you make it through this and the GFCI has not tripped, begin running individual loads for a minute... microwave a cup of water, run each air conditioner individually, maybe try the water heater electric element. A 20 amp circuit will only power ONE of these high load devices at a time, so don't start both air conditioners or turn on the water heater element with an a/c running. It's a process of elimination; eventually you'll find the circuit or appliance or device (or combination of them) that trips the GFCI.

A couple other things... AGS is Automatic Generator Start. Usually this feature can be configured to start the generator when any of several conditions are met: internal temperature, low coach battery voltage, etc.

The Silver Leaf power choice (20/30/50) lets Silver Leaf make load-shedding decisions based on the priority assigned to specific appliances or loads. It's to keep you from overloading your shore power source and tripping a circuit breaker.

The other feature discussed up thread was to limit the amount of current used by your inverter/charger when in charge mode.

Finding and fixing these electrical problems requires a methodical approach.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.
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