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Old 06-03-2022, 05:56 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by vet652000 View Post
Thanks for posting the diagram, but can someone tell me how you are getting 5-7 4/0 cables or even 2/0 cables on one battery post as the drawing shows??
I contend that this is impossible!?
Seriously??

If you don't want to spend the $$ on cables don't....it's your choice!!

I only suggest that you keep a very good fire extinguisher nearby
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Old 06-03-2022, 10:48 PM   #142
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Anybody hear from Brianna lately?
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Old 06-04-2022, 11:25 AM   #143
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Anybody hear from Brianna lately?
Not for some time now.
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Old 06-04-2022, 12:25 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Alpine36 View Post
Anybody hear from Brianna lately?
Looks like Brianna's last activity on IRV2 was 2/20/2021, well over 1 year ago.

Apparently the answers provided at that time were sufficient.
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Old 06-04-2022, 12:50 PM   #145
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Battery cable sizing

I am an EE with 40 yrs experience. I'm a firm believer a size above what's needed it better, however here's the engineering;
A cable rating is to handle the specified current for long periods of time. So the reality is you'll seldom actually draw the max current. If you have a 2000W inverter putting out the max power, like running your microwave or blow dryer. Assuming your 12v battery is loaded down to 10v at max current ... that's 200 AMPs DC (not accounting for line loss and inefficiencies). So you DO want a cable rated for 200Amps.

Here's the sad reality; The weak link is the connectors! Cable to lug and lug to battery. They get loose from heating and cooling, corrosion, vibration, oxidation, etc causing high resistance. (soldered is much better than crimped) I've never had a cable burn up in the middle, its always at the connectors. (resistance times current = HEAT)

A comment was made on keeping series and parallel wire lengths the same. In series it don't make a difference, shorter is better. In series the current is the same throughout the loop. longer cables will have more line loss. In parallel, equal length has theoretical validity. In parallel the voltage is equal between the two (or more) branches. Which is why you replace batteries in sets. Otherwise the stronger battery will be charging the weaker and providing more of the required current, making it hotter and discharge faster. (the new battery does all the work, the old battery is coasting :-)

Here's a simple trouble shooting test if you have a volt meter; put the negative lead on the battery post, put the positive on the wire coming out of the connector. (don't be touching the connector) Measure the voltage drop when drawing a large load. On a car battery cable I've seen a 4v drop! Sorry I can't tell you what's acceptable or typical.


Hope this helps,
Fred.
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Old 06-04-2022, 01:11 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgiesen View Post
I am an EE with 40 yrs experience. I'm a firm believer a size above what's needed it better, however here's the engineering;
A cable rating is to handle the specified current for long periods of time. So the reality is you'll seldom actually draw the max current. If you have a 2000W inverter putting out the max power, like running your microwave or blow dryer. Assuming your 12v battery is loaded down to 10v at max current ... that's 200 AMPs DC (not accounting for line loss and inefficiencies). So you DO want a cable rated for 200Amps.

Here's the sad reality; The weak link is the connectors! Cable to lug and lug to battery. They get loose from heating and cooling, corrosion, vibration, oxidation, etc causing high resistance. (soldered is much better than crimped) I've never had a cable burn up in the middle, its always at the connectors. (resistance times current = HEAT)

A comment was made on keeping series and parallel wire lengths the same. In series it don't make a difference, shorter is better. In series the current is the same throughout the loop. longer cables will have more line loss. In parallel, equal length has theoretical validity. In parallel the voltage is equal between the two (or more) branches. Which is why you replace batteries in sets. Otherwise the stronger battery will be charging the weaker and providing more of the required current, making it hotter and discharge faster. (the new battery does all the work, the old battery is coasting :-)

Here's a simple trouble shooting test if you have a volt meter; put the negative lead on the battery post, put the positive on the wire coming out of the connector. (don't be touching the connector) Measure the voltage drop when drawing a large load. On a car battery cable I've seen a 4v drop! Sorry I can't tell you what's acceptable or typical.


Hope this helps,
Fred.
Fred, Not to take exception with your comments or even your formal training but it has been common thinking in the RV and marine industry to use industrial quality crimping vs soldering as soldered connections eventually break down in mobile environments

This is what I use: https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...impers/2679-22

A proper crimp with a hydraulic crimper should stand the test of time in a mobile application from what I have seen...... I think this is where theory and practical application come together
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Old 06-04-2022, 02:08 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
Seriously??

If you don't want to spend the $$ on cables don't....it's your choice!!

I only suggest that you keep a very good fire extinguisher nearby
My interpretation of the question was that connecting 5-7 large terminals on a single battery post would present a certain set of challenges. There was no mention of using smaller gauge wire to save a buck.

Take a breath next time and maybe explain how you would handle the connections. We’re here to help people out, not chew their heads off.
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Old 06-04-2022, 03:26 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vet652000 View Post
Thanks for posting the diagram, but can someone tell me how you are getting 5-7 4/0 cables or even 2/0 cables on one battery post as the drawing shows??
I contend that this is impossible!?
Multiple cable can be connected to a battery post using military style connectors.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Negative-Military-Style-Battery-Terminals-8-Ga-to-4-0-Ga-1-per-pack/827083158

I'm not an Electrical Engineer, but I believe that this worked on my motor home because some of the cables are for the load, some of them are for charging, and they are not all carrying current at the same time. For instance, on my coach, on the positive post of the house batteries, there was a cable for starting the generator, a cable from the boost solenoid, a cable from the alternator, a cable to the main house fuse, a cable to the HWH system, and a cable to the solar panel.
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Old 06-04-2022, 04:26 PM   #149
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Here is some food for thought.
The reason why we, over time, need to change out our batt cables is because the electrical connection between the cable and the wire connector (no matter what kind of crimping process we use on the lug is) is that corrosion between the wire lug and the wire sets in. It has always been my practice, after crimping the lug to the wire, is to solder the two together. It forms a gas tight 'weld' and corrosion can never occur.
Secondly, I always use locking nuts to secure the lug to the battery. There is pro and con about using a split locking washer as well; my preference is to use a star locking washer. I will use a star washer for a better and more uniform, gas tight, connection between the nut and the lug. Some will put the star washer between lug and the battery, and compress it between the two components with a locking style nut. I think it is way overkill but thought I'd mention it. The object is to create a 'gas tight' connection between the wire lug and the battery post so corrosion can't set in over time. Again, this is my opinion and practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winemaker2 View Post
Suffice it to say there are believers in soldering and non-believers.
I have never had to replace a crimped terminal lug.
I have retinned some where the bare copper was exposed and corroded.
I agree that a good mechanical (hydraulic crimp) with commercial grade shrink tubing is probably the best solution for a mobile vehicle (RV or Boat) as solder has a tendency to crack over time with movement.

OTOH, most corrosion is caused by off-gassing from flooded lead-acid batteries so either AGM or Lithium will also eliminate the corrosion issue
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Old 06-11-2022, 06:21 PM   #150
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I agree that a good mechanical (hydraulic crimp) with commercial grade shrink tubing is probably the best solution for a mobile vehicle (RV or Boat) as solder has a tendency to crack over time with movement.



OTOH, most corrosion is caused by off-gassing from flooded lead-acid batteries so either AGM or Lithium will also eliminate the corrosion issue
Yup
So Crimps on AGM least likely to experience any issues.
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Old 06-11-2022, 06:41 PM   #151
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Yup
So Crimps on AGM least likely to experience any issues.
True it will as well as Lithium...... Anyone looking to buy AGMs right now is wasting $$ IMO vs the current cost of Lithium but if you already have AGM then it is the way to go
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:44 AM   #152
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Fred, Not to take exception with your comments or even your formal training but it has been common thinking in the RV and marine industry to use industrial quality crimping vs soldering as soldered connections eventually break down in mobile environments

This is what I use: https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...impers/2679-22

A proper crimp with a hydraulic crimper should stand the test of time in a mobile application from what I have seen...... I think this is where theory and practical application come together

You are correct, however solder is a better a connection electrically long term. Absolutely don't solder small wires, the vibration and/or bending will break them right off. This is where theory and applications diverge.



Kinda points out why there's such a large amount of discussion on the topic .... nothings perfect over time!
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:54 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by fgiesen View Post
You are correct, however solder is a better a connection electrically long term. Absolutely don't solder small wires, the vibration and/or bending will break them right off. This is where theory and applications diverge.



Kinda points out why there's such a large amount of discussion on the topic .... nothings perfect over time!
https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-...r-vs-crimping/
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:21 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthepines View Post
"Properly executed crimp joint" being the key take from this article. An over crimped or improperly stripped wire makes for a bad connection also. Correct sizing, components, patience and Thomas and Betts are your best friends.
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