Upgrade to Lithium Batteries

[Schuby]

Joerg,

Of course, wow that was a "senior moment"!

[Schuby]

I tried a new cat 5 cable to remote monitor and get the same faulty readings. Xantrex support said the problem is most likely in the Xantrex box and it is not repairable because of lack of parts. I suppose a new inverter/charge would be necessary?

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by Alpine06

You are spot on. You can discharge the Lithium but cannot charge below freezing without damaging the cells.
This is why I opted for the Victron components I can disconnect the charge at any low / high temperature setting in the 712 BMV.
Also the alternator needs to charge something while driving otherwise the diodes will burn up. I have a solution in place about 80% finished and will report back once I am happy with the testing.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/are-...po4-batteries/
Have not tested this, but BMS should look after it.
I do have a 200 watt heater on a thermostat in battery bay, just in case.

[r3meyer]

Originally Posted by Schuby

I tried a new cat 5 cable to remote monitor and get the same faulty readings. Xantrex support said the problem is most likely in the Xantrex box and it is not repairable because of lack of parts. I suppose a new inverter/charge would be necessary?

Yes the cat 5 is not going to change anything. That just displays what your Xantrex is reading. I personally would not replace the inverter/charger because of that. I would just get myself a good battery monitor like victron that has bluetooth monitoring and use that. Or any of the newer solar controllers will also give you a more accurate reading.

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by paul65k

Neil V.....fires surely are something to be worried about??

Did you replace your absorbtion fridge as well??

No because most of the residential models that would fit in the space where my 2001 Single Sided Norcold (which is not one of the problematic models) use a Propane or IsoButane refrigerant and may be more prone to violent explosion than the Absorption Refrigerators. As I researched all the new residential refrigerators/air conditioners blowing up in homes and businesses globally it became clear that these Residential Units cooled by using Explosive Gases as a refrigerant may be more dangerous than the Norcold or Dometic Absorption models due to the extremely violent explosions that have started to occur since their introduction which have caused a number horrific injuries such as dismemberment's and have killed people. Plus I would have to substantially increase my battery capacity which in a 35U Adventurer would require giving up basement storage.

People are aghast when they see charring around an absorption refrigerator however I have seen similar charring underneath residential refrigerators where wood or sheet vinyl flooring was charred by overheated compressors. Neither type of refrigerator is 100% safe and the Propane/IsoButane refrigerant incidents due to their much more violent explosive failures make them a very poor choice in the confined space of an RV. If a residential refrigerator incident involving these newer units just about vaporizes its contents, destroys the kitchen and blows out windows in a houses rooms adjacent to the kitchen along with causes a fire how much more devastating would having one blow in an RV be?

I use to service residential and commercial absorption cooling systems, maintained residential apartment complexes along with manufacturing plants and have seen a lot over the years.


When I see the warning signs that my Norcold is starting to fail (which I do inspect before each trip and maintain clean its service compartment) I will likely refit it with a Helium cooling unit or replace it with a new Helium based refrigerator.

[RVPioneer]

Back to batteries. It seems apparent that more LiFePo batteries will be put into service as time goes on. They are certainly designed to withstand the abuse and neglect that RV owners impose on LA batteries. Many owners have converted and have been using them without incident for years. They are becoming standard or optional equipment on new coaches.

Each person needs to evaluate the risk reward ratio in any endeavor and determine what is acceptable for them.

FWIW: Our friends lost their coach in a fire a week ago. It was parked in their driveway and the fire originated in the front of the coach. The fire department, which arrived in minutes, believes a rodent may have chewed through a wire. How do you protect against that? The fire caused some damage to the exterior of the house.

[paul65k]

Candidly my friend.....I think you over think things just a bit......but at least I now understand that and will take your comments into context!!

All the best to you in your quest for ABSOLUTE safety

Cheers!

Originally Posted by NeilV

No because most of the residential models that would fit in the space where my 2001 Single Sided Norcold (which is not one of the problematic models) use a Propane or IsoButane refrigerant and may be more prone to violent explosion than the Absorption Refrigerators. As I researched all the new residential refrigerators/air conditioners blowing up in homes and businesses globally it became clear that these Residential Units cooled by using Explosive Gases as a refrigerant may be more dangerous than the Norcold or Dometic Absorption models due to the extremely violent explosions that have started to occur since their introduction which have caused a number horrific injuries such as dismemberment's and have killed people. Plus I would have to substantially increase my battery capacity which in a 35U Adventurer would require giving up basement storage.

People are aghast when they see charring around an absorption refrigerator however I have seen similar charring underneath residential refrigerators where wood or sheet vinyl flooring was charred by overheated compressors. Neither type of refrigerator is 100% safe and the Propane/IsoButane refrigerant incidents due to their much more violent explosive failures make them a very poor choice in the confined space of an RV. If a residential refrigerator incident involving these newer units just about vaporizes its contents, destroys the kitchen and blows out windows in a houses rooms adjacent to the kitchen along with causes a fire how much more devastating would having one blow in an RV be?

I use to service residential and commercial absorption cooling systems, maintained residential apartment complexes along with manufacturing plants and have seen a lot over the years.


When I see the warning signs that my Norcold is starting to fail (which I do inspect before each trip and maintain clean its service compartment) I will likely refit it with a Helium cooling unit or replace it with a new Helium based refrigerator.

[DrDaveMA]

Joerg, have you compiled a final, as installed cost for the conversion?

[Alpine06]

Originally Posted by DrDaveMA

Joerg, have you compiled a final, as installed cost for the conversion?

Dave,
the total is a bit intermingled with my solar project.
Batteries, battery protect, additional On/Off switch, wire, wire lugs and BVM712 monitor with temp sensor and external cell balancer comes to $1,916 for 408Ah.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by Alpine06

Dave,
the total is a bit intermingled with my solar project.
Batteries, battery protect, additional On/Off switch, wire, wire lugs and BVM712 monitor with temp sensor and external cell balancer comes to $1,916 for 408Ah.

That's a great price for 400AH!!

Next year we'll do our phase 2 upgrade for sure once we know our usage with the new Solar and Residential Refer in place. I'll be upgrading the rest of the system with new inverter and LiPo batteries.

While I may not be buying them today I am encouraged to see drop in batteries with integrated BMS selling in the ~650 range for 100AH batteries with a lifetime warranty....things are starting to shake out

[Alpine06]

Originally Posted by paul65k

That's a great price for 400AH!!



Next year we'll do our phase 2 upgrade for sure once we know our usage with the new Solar and Residential Refer in place. I'll be upgrading the rest of the system with new inverter and LiPo batteries.



While I may not be buying them today I am encouraged to see drop in batteries with integrated BMS selling in the ~650 range for 100AH batteries with a lifetime warranty....things are starting to shake out

Well with the amount of solar you got it will take no time to charge the Lithium batteries. On my last trip the Monitor showed I was down by 200 Ah and my Xantrax max is 100A so in theory the charge should be completed in 2h. Guess what .. that is exactly what it took to get to 100%. Now my 100% is only 85% of the total battery capacity for longevity reasons but my point is that the charge is accepted with a 98-99% efficiency. That is sooooo much better than trying to charge the lead based systems. I really like it.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by Alpine06

Well with the amount of solar you got it will take no time to charge the Lithium batteries. On my last trip the Monitor showed I was down by 200 Ah and my Xantrax max is 100A so in theory the charge should be completed in 2h. Guess what .. that is exactly what it took to get to 100%. Now my 100% is only 85% of the total battery capacity for longevity reasons but my point is that the charge is accepted with a 98-99% efficiency. That is sooooo much better than trying to charge the lead based systems. I really like it.

PS.....are you planning on attending the Quartzsite rally this year?

[Alpine06]

Never been there but would love to see it
Cathrin and I are leaving for a trip out west in 2-3 weeks staying a couple of month and other than that we have only plans for Dec.
I am trying to finish all open projects on the coach at this moment.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by Alpine06

Never been there but would love to see it
Cathrin and I are leaving for a trip out west in 2-3 weeks staying a couple of months and other than that we have only plans for Dec.
I am trying to finish all open projects on the coach at this moment.

Well, it's the largest rally of the year for the Alpine Coach Association.....almost 100 rigs will be there. Community tent, lots of great information exchanged as well as good food and entertainment........it would be perfect for you with those new Lithium batteries on-board