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05-28-2017, 09:45 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orlando, FL.
Posts: 86
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Water system
Hello all my Alpine friends,
I have a 2004 40' Western Alpine and I am having water pump issues, My motor didn't seem to start when you open a value. I checked the motor and it seems to be running when I put a hot to it so I thought it may be the pressure switch. I just ordered a new switch and remounted the motor and still the motor will not run. I checked the voltage and for some reason I only showed 7V. Do you have any idea what I can check or replace to get the system to work.
Jack
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Jack & Brenda
2010 Tiffin Pheaton
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05-28-2017, 10:11 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Posts: 3,113
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Water system
There is an inline fuse about 6 - 8" from the pump. Many times vibration just causes the glass to break, replace the fuse and it should work.
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Dave, Bobbi and Fenway
2005 38' FDTS Alpine Limited, 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Lake Wales, FL
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05-28-2017, 11:14 AM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orlando, FL.
Posts: 86
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Water system
Thanks but I checked and the fuse is good. Plus when I hook it to 12V the motor runs find it just not starting when you open a value.
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Jack & Brenda
2010 Tiffin Pheaton
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05-28-2017, 01:41 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 836
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Jack,
I've had lots of problems with the water pump; some Sureflow specific and some with the wiring.
First, the Smart Sensor 5.7 was GARBAGE! I went through 3 - of the them in just 2 - years. It's been discontinued for good reason. There may be some owners on here who swear that they still have the original pump running but many others will tell you that they're simply NOT reliable.
Second, we all need to understand how the wiring was done by WRV for 2003 and probably most years. Everyone is aware that there are 2 - 3 way switches involved (the control panel & the toilet room). The biggest problem with the wiring is that WRV used small gauge wire (24 - 22 awg) to tie the switches into the larger #10 wires that eventually feed the pump. So, the 10 amps required by the pump MUST transverse those small wires and crimped connections as well as run a long ways down to the pump (longer coaches are worse than shorter ones). In addition. I discovered during troubleshooting that one of the 2 - crimps used at the control panel were NOT reliable and thus causing even more voltage drop to the pump. You can pull your tank monitor panel to access those crimps. I now use appropriately sized wire nuts.
The ultimate solution for me was 2 - fold: 1) New AquaJet 5.3 pump and 2) Employ an intermediary solenoid with power obtained from the cable reel. I installed a Cole-Hersey solenoid (overkill but same as starting relay which can be used as a spare in an emergency) mounted next to the pump. I used a 35 amp rated toggle switch (SPDT) mounted close to the cable reel switch. I pulled the cable reel power wire back to the toggle switch and ran the 2 - switched connections to the pump and to the cable reel (where the source was pulled). The toggle switch is not absolutely necessary but insures that I can't blow the 25 amp cable reel fuse. Worse case is that I forget to switch it before hitting the road.
So, the 3 way switches simply activate the solenoid which does not require much voltage/current to operate. More importantly, the pump now gets full voltage/current to operate from a shorter direct source. Works like a champ!!!
I've had the AquaJet pump with the new wiring now for several years and no more problems. Interestingly, the AquaJet pump installation manual strongly suggests using an "intermediary" relay/solenoid. If the 10 - amps vs 25 - amp fuse is a concern you can always employ an inline fuse from an auto parts store. I don't - not concerned.
You can PM me if you have any questions.
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Bob Bowers (Surprise, AZ)
2003 Alpine Coach 40' FDTS
2014 Jeep Cherokee Lattitude
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05-28-2017, 02:13 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,396
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Bob nailed it--IMHO. Believe later Alpines employed an OEM relay solution to get around this wiring issue. Small gauge wire and long runs between switches and the pump is a great receipt for low voltage.....Continued low voltage causes excess heat and ruins the pump.....
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Old Scout
2015 IH45 Foretravel
2003 Alpine 40' MDTS [Sold]
New Braunfels, Texas
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05-28-2017, 02:16 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 349
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I'm having a problem understanding what you're saying that you did. You say it ran fine when you hooked it to (I surmise some independent 12V source), but when you opened the faucet it wouldn't run. Actually, the pump shouldn't run with the faucet closed, but you're saying it ran, then when you opened the faucet, it didn't. Is that right?
confused Dudley Do-Right '06Alpine40MDTS
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05-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 349
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Bob; first, let me say that the wiring on (at least) my '06 Apex40, is a serious rats nest. But, I must say that surely (Don't call me Shirley) no one would attempt to wire a high-draw 12V motor with 22/24 ga. wire. Perhaps there is a relay (or two) hidden somewhere, that would make more sense, and give WRV a little credit. I know you're not saying it was wired all the way with 22/24, but even a short insert of that gauge in the middle of the appropriate size wire would have the same effect of choking the amps down for the whole run.
Dudley Do-Right, '06Alpine40MDTS
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05-28-2017, 04:26 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,396
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"Shirley" --I hate to burst your bubble but that is about what WRV.....maybe not 20-22 gauge wire but the size of wire used, the amp capacity of the switches, and the length of the runs between switches and to the pump, all contribute to premature pump failures in early Alpines. Yup--some wiring aspects of your APEX may resemble a "rats nest" but your fresh water pump wiring config. isn't one of them......
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Old Scout
2015 IH45 Foretravel
2003 Alpine 40' MDTS [Sold]
New Braunfels, Texas
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05-28-2017, 06:06 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orlando, FL.
Posts: 86
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Water Pump
Let me say that when I check the voltage on the feed wire I had 12.4V but when I hook it up it was reading 7.4V. Are you saying that the motor should run when their is no values open but when you open the water value the pump stops?
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Jack & Brenda
2010 Tiffin Pheaton
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05-28-2017, 06:53 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Posts: 3,113
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No, exactly the opposite, if you are NOT connected to shore water, with the faucets all closed the pump will NOT run, open one (or more) of the faucets and the pump should turn on.
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Dave, Bobbi and Fenway
2005 38' FDTS Alpine Limited, 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Lake Wales, FL
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05-28-2017, 08:29 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 836
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I'm assuming that your water control valve is on "City Water" and NOT on "Tank Fill". If and when the "Tank Fill" is selected the pump will run continuously with or without the faucets closed. Yes, your voltage at the pump will drop IF the pump is running but should be 12V+ when NOT running.
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Bob Bowers (Surprise, AZ)
2003 Alpine Coach 40' FDTS
2014 Jeep Cherokee Lattitude
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05-28-2017, 08:53 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbowers
I'm assuming that your water control valve is on "City Water" and NOT on "Tank Fill". If and when the "Tank Fill" is selected the pump will run continuously with or without the faucets closed. Yes, your voltage at the pump will drop IF the pump is running but should be 12V+ when NOT running.
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I had a similar problem in my 2010 Tiffin and discovered there is a controller that regulates the pump motor turning on/off. In my case you could hold the pump switch on and get water but it would not stay on as it should. The controller is located in the wet bay and I got it wet when a PEX connection leaked above the wet bay. It was a simple swap out costing $60. The bad part, as I see it, is why in the world would you mount a controller that is NOT waterproof in the wet bay?
MrB1LL
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05-29-2017, 06:39 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,396
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Pretty sure WRV didn't begin installing pump controllers until later models...try installing a relay with power feed from cable reel--has worked for me. But make sure the "tank fill/city water" valve [very cheap - subject to failure] is closing properly for pump to operate correctly....
__________________
Old Scout
2015 IH45 Foretravel
2003 Alpine 40' MDTS [Sold]
New Braunfels, Texas
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06-01-2017, 07:19 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: KY
Posts: 250
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Thanks guys for the heads up. I'm not having any problems yet but I don't like the way its wired now. I did purchase a small expansion tank so it would quit cycling so much so I'll rewire the pump also.
greenmachine
2003 38Fd Alpine
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