Water4gas

[Hitchhiker]

and you are running purely on water

Lee,


Unless I've misunderstood these guys who are tinkering with these HHO kits, they aren't asserting that their vehicles are running purely on water. What I understood is that they're interjecting the hydrogen and oxygen extracted from water (HHO) into the engine's air intake and are increasing the gasoline's burn rate, thus improving their mileage. How much of an improvement they're getting seems to vary with who is doing the telling, ranging between a 25% and 60% gain.

Therefore, none of them could possibly meet your challenge and collect the $1,000 offered because you stipulate it must run purely on water, a feat that only the Japanese have claimed to have accomplished last month.

Here's a link to the Japanese story.

If you modified your challenge to include a working HHO kit working as they assert, maybe someone would accept the challenge.

[MtManLee]

Sadly the HHO kits actually make the vehicle work harder thus burning more gas. So they are not I repeat are not getting a better fuel economy. It takes the alternator to run the converter and to make it work one needs to run the engine at a higher rpm thus not working at all. The kits are a joke as well. But those that are looking at them and even those buying them and trying them are using more fuel but claiming less, are fouling their computerized engines unless they are using a carbureted model from way back when. So technically no one could claim it cuz even the people that created the kits have admitted that there is an increase in engine rpm to run the converters. LOL so the joke is on those that buy them and believe they help.

[rogueii]

Sadly the HHO kits actually make the vehicle work harder thus burning more gas. So they are not I repeat are not getting a better fuel economy. It takes the alternator to run the converter and to make it work one needs to run the engine at a higher rpm thus not working at all. The kits are a joke as well. But those that are looking at them and even those buying them and trying them are using more fuel but claiming less, are fouling their computerized engines unless they are using a carbureted model from way back when. So technically no one could claim it cuz even the people that created the kits have admitted that there is an increase in engine rpm to run the converters. LOL so the joke is on those that buy them and believe they help.

Remember, Flying, Electricity, Radio, TV, were all considered jokes. Someone will figure out how to intergrate this technology with modern engine technology.
As for the power to run the HHO Generator, you could run your Generator (gas)@ about >.7 GPH to provide the power to produce the Hydrogen, taking the strain off the alternator. This would provide a great savings , if you can run your engine on Hydrogen.
The 4 gas plans call for a plate beneath the carburator & control panel to reduce the gas flow and run on hydrogen. The guy that introduce this, is working on a project for the government to develop a system to run an Army Hummer on both gas and hydrogen. He already converted welding operations from gas to hydrogen.
I won't Blow off the possibility of this technology, people are using it in other countries now and I expect it will be modified to meet our demands soon.

[Hitchhiker]

I'm reading that most of these HHO generators will draw about 20 amps or so, the tinkerers adjust the amount of potassium hydroxide placed in the water solution to keep the amperage at or below the 20 amps. That amount usually produces the quantity of HHO gas they want.

That amount of amperage (20 amps) is about how much your headlamps use..... not too many folks getting too concerned about the drag on the engine while running with the headlamps turned on so why would there be a high degree of concern with the HHO generator turned on.

I read a paper about this HHO science a few days ago that seemed to be asserting that it's not the actual burning of the hydrogen in the engine that increases the mileage, but it's a reaction with the gasoline vapors caused by the hydrogen that increases the burn efficiency of the gasoline vapor that's already in the cylinders. Hence, the gas vapor burns more efficiently, producing more internal force, increasing the power, thus increasing mileage.

These HHO generators aren't actually creating more energy than it takes to produce, they're setting up a reaction that obtains the extra energy from the gasoline. The amount of hydrogen being created (less than a liter a minute) wouldn't have enough energy in it to do squat. There's a lot of energy wasted in a gallon of gasoline when burned in an internal combustion engine and with that fact rests the opportunity to increase mileage.

I really don't give a hoot whether anyone believes this works or not. It's not my ax to grind. I find it intriguing that through web searches I can find hundreds if not thousands of people who say it actually works. and only a handful of doubting Thomases who swear it's impossible to get more energy out of something than is put in.

Actually, I'm surprised non believers even bother to read a thread such as this one if they're so adamant that this process is scientifically impossible.

[doc]

well said Richard!
Like you, I wondered why so many people were singing high praises (perhaps thedy didn't want to be the only suckers who bough into this? or is it a pyramid scheme where each one gets a cut from the next person he recruits?)
Then I began looking into the chemical aspects of it and realized that perhaps they ARE generating hydrogen more from the chemical reactions, with the electicity being the catalyst, than just the pure breakdown of water into the basic elements. To produce enough hydrogen to run an engine would take a BUNCH of electricity.
Now, whether or not this is viable in increasing MPG, I will have to wait and see.

[NeilV]

Originally posted by doc:
well said Richard!
Like you, I wondered why so many people were singing high praises (perhaps thedy didn't want to be the only suckers who bough into this? or is it a pyramid scheme where each one gets a cut from the next person he recruits?)
Then I began looking into the chemical aspects of it and realized that perhaps they ARE generating hydrogen more from the chemical reactions, with the electicity being the catalyst, than just the pure breakdown of water into the basic elements. To produce enough hydrogen to run an engine would take a BUNCH of electricity.
Now, whether or not this is viable in increasing MPG, I will have to wait and see.

As I currently understand this you wouldn't want to provide enough Browns gas to run a stock gasoline engine anyway as there are to many items that would rust in the cylinder, heads and exhaust system. A minor blend would be all that most gasoline engines would be able to handle without damage from the water vapor generated during combution.

Denny Klein who is from the Tampa Florida area seems to have a viable unit but it is being used mostly in the Scientific and Industrial arena for clean welding and heating.

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/index.php/hydrogen...leage-with-hydrogen/

[Marty too]

If there's an interest to build one of these generators, do a Google for "Smacks PDF" and then look for "Smack Booster." All the info is right there.

Or do a copy and paste into your browser for

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

I found it interesting reading.

Marty

[jhughd]

Our local TV station tested this "water for gas" system. They tried to make a fair test and it seems they did. Same car, same route (100 miles) used cruise control and same speed. The first run was using the stock gas system. The second run was with the "water for gas" system. The water for gas system got worse fule mileage than without. Not much, but none the less, worse. Can we spell SNAKE OIL?

JD

[MtManLee]

Ok all you science geniuses why arent you telling us you already have bought one and mounted it on your toad or rv and getting twice the gas mileage or even a mileage improvement???
I will tell you why because even you know it does not work and its a waste of money. When I see it announced in writing and on the news that its working and does what it says than and only than will I believe in it. And not by some company selling it. Funny that several news media folks and also the urban legends show on tv tried them and found they did not work as claimed. So how can we poor folks out here believe the claims without proof shutting down those who have done it and proved it dont work? Are we to call the news media liars? Are we to call those who have tried it and found it does not work liars as well? And I have seen that comment in an rv blog I think at rvnet.

[NeilV]

Here is the press page from Denny Kliens web site where you will find links to CNN and Fox news reports on his Hydrogen Products where it was announced that his product was working:

http://www.hytechapps.com/company/press

It is still principly being marketed as a welding device.

As for me I am not in a position to engineer the changes to the exhaust gas feedback systems on my newer than 2000 vehicles so I must wait for a cost effective set of controls to be made available before I can pursue this.

I may consider knocking something together using the switchplate design generator for my 1985 Plymouth (Carborated and no Feedback system) however time is at a premium and I have too many other items on my list besides testing browns gas on a 22 year old minivan.

Klien seems to be pursuing the educational (Apple Computer Approach) and industrial relm first so it may be some time before we see his products on the consumer market.

[DonavonP]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0724150340.htm

The above is an article on using some of the 60%+ wasted exhaust heat to generate electricity. Too expensive now but down the road??

[doc]

Ok all you science geniuses why arent you telling us you already have bought one and mounted it on your toad or rv and getting twice the gas mileage or even a mileage improvement???
I will tell you why because even you know it does not work and its a waste of money. When I see it announced in writing and on the news that its working and does what it says than and only than will I believe in it. And not by some company selling it. Funny that several news media folks and also the urban legends show on tv tried them and found they did not work as claimed. So how can we poor folks out here believe the claims without proof shutting down those who have done it and proved it dont work? Are we to call the news media liars? Are we to call those who have tried it and found it does not work liars as well? And I have seen that comment in an rv blog I think at rvnet.

Lee this is merely a DISCUSSION, nothing more. Opinions are just that - opinions. No use getting all upset and bothered. Simple chemical reactions can and do generate hydrogen but who knows whether or not it increases milage or not. However, if we all set on our duffs and don't try new ideas - whether they work or not - we will remain virtual prisoners of the muslim/arab oil countries.
Without experimentation and trial and error, Edison's light bulb would never have happened. We would still be using DC power without Tessler's coil. Discussion and the exchange of ideas and information is a good thing. If you are offended by this, then so be it, but a new ideas make for progress.

[Rick 2005 Dolphin 5376]

Originally posted by doc:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ok all you science geniuses why arent you telling us you already have bought one and mounted it on your toad or rv and getting twice the gas mileage or even a mileage improvement???
I will tell you why because even you know it does not work and its a waste of money. When I see it announced in writing and on the news that its working and does what it says than and only than will I believe in it. And not by some company selling it. Funny that several news media folks and also the urban legends show on tv tried them and found they did not work as claimed. So how can we poor folks out here believe the claims without proof shutting down those who have done it and proved it dont work? Are we to call the news media liars? Are we to call those who have tried it and found it does not work liars as well? And I have seen that comment in an rv blog I think at rvnet.

Lee this is merely a DISCUSSION, nothing more. Opinions are just that - opinions. No use getting all upset and bothered. Simple chemical reactions can and do generate hydrogen but who knows whether or not it increases milage or not. However, if we all set on our duffs and don't try new ideas - whether they work or not - we will remain virtual prisoners of the muslim/arab oil countries.
Without experimentation and trial and error, Edison's light bulb would never have happened. We would still be using DC power without Tessler's coil. Discussion and the exchange of ideas and information is a good thing. If you are offended by this, then so be it, but a new ideas make for progress. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nicely put. Without trying new ideas we'd still be rubbing sticks together to make fire.

[MtManLee]

Sometimes I wonder if we shouldnt still be rubbing sticks together. But since I am more than capable of living off the land I can get away with that comment.
I just hate seeing spammers out there taking peoples money for things that dont work. And sadly there are a lot of them doing just that. And a lot of fulltime rvers are retirees that tend to be the first person on the list for these spammers. There are dozens of these sites offering people the better gas mileage for these kits. Have seen new members pop up in other forums selling these kits and some will direct you to sites that say you will get up to 15% better gas mileage. Sad but true.