Community Forums

ekim · 09-21-2015, 11:25 AM

I'm looking for weight info on the 40 AP bus. Tiffin doesn't publish it and a phone call to them resulted in them saying the CCC was 2,000 lbs. I doubt it's that low....

I'm also waiting for an email response from Tiffin asking about weights.

I'd really like to see individual wheel weights with everything empty and then full of fuel and water.

Is this an unreasonable request to make of the factory?

Mr_D · 09-21-2015, 11:34 AM

Tiffin could be right. Our 2002 Dutch Star had an advertised NCC of 5,300#'s so I didn't worry about the CCC figuring it's be 3,000#'s or so.
At delivery I found it was only 630#'s and ALL of that was on the rear axle. Newmar did correct it by replacing the 12,000# front axle with a 14,600# unit and Spartan said the rear axle was a 20,000# unit and there was no reason for Newmar to derate it to 19,000#'s

But certainly do some more checking, 2,000#'s wouldn't be enough for most people.

Skip426 · 09-21-2015, 11:37 AM

CCC. of 2,000 lbs on a 40' coach.

Please post if the e mail gives different numbers. Basic CCC was 5,000, on my coach , options dropped it to 3,700, and I use 2,700 of that. Rolling at 1,000 lbs under GVWR.

Pigman1 · 09-21-2015, 03:59 PM

Good luck with getting the info out of Tiffin. I had a 2008 Bus that when I weighed it showed the rear axle over 20,000 pounds, coach essentially empty and dry. I also found that I had a Meritor rear axle with a 17,000 pound max limit that Tiffin had asked Freightliner to extend to 20,000. A quick flick of the pencil, and presto, I now had a 20,000 pound axle. Repeated calls to Tiffin to get a copy of their weights that they found when building it proved fruitless.

When I special ordered my 2013, I specified in the contract that I would be furnished a copy of the Tiffin weight sheet and made it clear to the dealer that if I didn't receive it at delivery, the deal was off. I got my sheet.

Tiffin builds a great coach, but they have a history of weight issues. Because of this they are very reluctant to furnish weight information on their coaches. My only advice is to keep trying and get ugly about it. They weigh each coach and record the weights. It's available, just not available to you. Keep digging.

ekim · 09-21-2015, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D

But certainly do some more checking, 2,000#'s wouldn't be enough for most people.

Fuel and water use #1,875 lbs. So a CCC of 2,000 would leave just enough for a 125 lb driver and nothing else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip426

CCC. of 2,000 lbs on a 40' coach.

Please post if the e mail gives different numbers. Basic CCC was 5,000, on my coach , options dropped it to 3,700, and I use 2,700 of that. Rolling at 1,000 lbs under GVWR.

We're considering this coach for full time use and I'm trying to account for a few hundred pounds of solar panels on the roof, heavy tools in the basement, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigman1

Good luck with getting the info out of Tiffin. I had a 2008 Bus that when I weighed it showed the rear axle over 20,000 pounds, coach essentially empty and dry. I also found that I had a Meritor rear axle with a 17,000 pound max limit that Tiffin had asked Freightliner to extend to 20,000. A quick flick of the pencil, and presto, I now had a 20,000 pound axle.

This is the very issue I'm trying to get ahead of before pulling the trigger.

BobGed · 09-21-2015, 05:49 PM

You might try calling Don Boyd at Tiffin (256) 356-0261 Ext 3290. If he knows he will tell you.

Selah · 09-21-2015, 07:41 PM

The build sheet that is posted in my rear closet clearly states the "CCC for this Motorhome". Mine s a Phaeton 42 LH but I would guess that it is posted on the Bus as well. Maybe someone with your model can check there build sheet.
BTW: 2000 does seem awfully low.

luvlabs · 09-22-2015, 10:28 AM

ekim,

You've got the math wrong. The CCC applies to how much cargo you can carry after the fuel is loaded, the water tank is full, and you have your passengers on board. A half tank of water saves you 400 lbs, 2 passengers only, saves you 300 lbs and so on.

Most people dwell too much on a number that is generated only for estimating purposes. The key numbers will be your axle weight limits, GVWR, and GCWR. If those are all in range when you are loaded (and I think you will surprise yourself how little your stuff actually weighs) you are good to go.

Tiffin does do 4 corner weighing as part of their routine build process to. Usually the water tanks and fuel are not full at that point but the weights are available if you ask.

ekim · 09-22-2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

ekim,

You've got the math wrong. The CCC applies to how much cargo you can carry after the fuel is loaded, the water tank is full, and you have your passengers on board. A half tank of water saves you 400 lbs, 2 passengers only, saves you 300 lbs and so on.

Yes. I now know this after talking to someone else at Tiffin. The CCC number the 1st person provided me was after taking into account full fuel water and 4 people. That leaves ~2,000 lbs of "stuff" (food, cooking stuff, clothes, tools, toys, etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Most people dwell too much on a number that is generated only for estimating purposes. The key numbers will be your axle weight limits, GVWR, and GCWR. If those are all in range when you are loaded (and I think you will surprise yourself how little your stuff actually weighs) you are good to go.

Yes, I've been doing some research for full timing. I want to ensure that I have enough leeway to not be overly concerned about weight. 2,000 lbs could work, but it seems to be at the lower bound for my needs. For example I plan to add solar panels, have lots of tools that I would bring, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Tiffin does do 4 corner weighing as part of their routine build process to. Usually the water tanks and fuel are not full at that point but the weights are available if you ask.

I'm working on getting an example - for a fully optioned 40AP.

luvlabs · 09-23-2015, 09:24 AM

Find a dealer that has a coach in stock that is optioned close to the one you want and go visit. There will be several sheets of paper posted on the wall in the rear closet. This will have the CCC for that coach. Based on what you want to add or substract option wise, you can figure it out for the coach you want. And as I said, CCC is a dynamic number.

You can visit the Tiffin RV Network website and see if anyone there owns a coach similar to what you want. They would probably be more than likely to share their posted CCC with you.

BTW, your biggest concern on a single rear axle 40 ft coach (any make) is rear axle weight and not CCC or any other artifical weight comparison.

ekim · 09-23-2015, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

You can visit the Tiffin RV Network website and see if anyone there owns a coach similar to what you want. They would probably be more than likely to share their posted CCC with you.

There's some good info over then now for the coach I'm interested in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

BTW, your biggest concern on a single rear axle 40 ft coach (any make) is rear axle weight and not CCC or any other artifical weight comparison.

Yes, I'm quickly learning this. And a 40' tag coach looses a storage bay.

rex-racer · 10-03-2015, 03:16 PM

I'm looking to buy an Allegro Bus 37AP and went through this very exercise not too long ago. I want to tow a trailer with a race car plus carry full water to Boondock at the track....so CCC is key for me.

In the 18 months I've been researching RV's I've come to the one conclusion that is common among ALL RV's and that is everything is a compromise. Unless you have unlimited wealth and can buy a Marathon Prevost and have someone drive it for you, you are going to have to comprise no matter what coach you have to buy. Some more than others.

For me, I need a coach under 40 feet due to the misses not wanting anything bigger, my driveway not really able to accommodate anything bigger. I wanted a TAG, but the only 40 foot TAG is the Newmar and it lacks several key things the Tiffin has. So I'll give up the TAG axle. I wanted a 150-200 gallon water tank so that would mean a class 8 truck conversion. Was ready to go there but you loose quite a bit of living space. With the TAG, you loose a storage bay or two.

So for extras water (assuming I have the CCC and need it) i'll rig up some sort of way to carry jugs or an extra water resovoir to pump into the main). All of which comes down to CCC.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I had also come to the conclusion as the previous poster that I would INSIST on the actual weight sheet Tiffin has for my coach or no deal.

ekim · 10-05-2015, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rex-racer

I want to tow a trailer with a race car plus carry full water to Boondock at the track....so CCC is key for me.

I don't think the the 37 or 40 foot Bus will meet your needs. I've been trying to track weight info. Here are two actual measured weights of brand new 40' busses. Numbers for the 37 will be very close.

21,410 (1/3 tank fuel, 1/2 (guess) tank water)
21,490 (3/4 tank fuel, 3/4 water).

It's safe to assume that just a full tank of water will put the rear axle to 21,500 lbs (probably more).

Let's assume your trailer is 7,000 lbs with 13% tongue weight. That's 910 lbs. Most of that will be on the rear axle as well. I'm assuming the bus air bags will level things out so that weight is not transferred from the from of the bus to the rear axles.

Now we're conservatively at 22,410 lbs. That leaves 590 lbs for people, clothes, food, gear, parts and tools (probably heavy if its a race rig).

I don't think it's possible to tow anything other than to flat tow a car with the single rear wheel Buses. The 15K hitch capacity is misleading at best.

If you need to stay under 40 feet and tow a car trailer I think you'll be forced into the Newmar if you want to buy new. Used you might be able to find some other 40' tax axle models.

This is all assuming there's a desire to stay under the axle ratings.....

luvlabs · 10-06-2015, 09:39 AM

ekim,

After reading your posts in all of the different spots on this forum and TRVN, I've decided that you really need to sit down, have an adult beverage, and ponder this whole weight thing.

The only way around your weight concerns are to go to a tag axle coach. A 43' one would still fit in your driveway. Unfortunetly, Tiffin no longer builds a 43' in the bus, but you can get one in the Phaeton - or pick up a good used bus.