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SamKVA · 12-02-2022, 09:49 AM

I've posted here before about our AH problems with continual low boiler fluid levels, even when it's full. That problem is officially registered with AH/AIRXCEL and they have been very good to work with. I could solve it by running the main engine to heat the fluid. Not always convenient but OK in a crunch and it should not happen. The problem pops up as it starts to get colder here. Today I was able to solve it by disconnecting and reconnecting the fluid level sensor cable. Not sure why that worked but it did.

Today's (new) problem is that the burner now runs as expected with fluid temp at ~185 degrees and no errors but the heat exchangers inside are blowing out cold air.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Sam

zombiewoof · 12-02-2022, 03:58 PM

Your circulator pumps are not running. Go to the Spyder screen, get into the AquaHot diagnostics mode, manually turn on each pump and see if it runs. There are three pumps. If you need help in figuring this out let me know and I will go into more detail. If you are comfortable doing it from the AquaHot reporter in the wet bay it is very easy to hear the pumps. Otherwise do it from Spyder then go into the AquaHot bay and listen. Set the AquaHot heat to electric so that the burner does not drown out the noise. If this works I suggest resetting the DC system via the house DC disconnect in the drivers side bay. The automatic control system may need a reboot.

SamKVA · 12-02-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zombiewoof

Your circulator pumps are not running. Go to the Spyder screen, get into the AquaHot diagnostics mode, manually turn on each pump and see if it runs. There are three pumps. If you need help in figuring this out let me know and I will go into more detail. If you are comfortable doing it from the AquaHot reporter in the wet bay it is very easy to hear the pumps. Otherwise do it from Spyder then go into the AquaHot bay and listen. Set the AquaHot heat to electric so that the burner does not drown out the noise. If this works I suggest resetting the DC system via the house DC disconnect in the drivers side bay. The automatic control system may need a reboot.

Really appreciate the advice! I checked the pumps from the reporter since I was right there and confirmed the were running (visually from Reporter and hearing them). However, I can't be in two places at once so don't know if they stayed running after going inside. I will try it again from the Spyder control.

I did a Reporter reboot/reset but did not try a DC reset.

Thanks!
Sam

zombiewoof · 12-02-2022, 04:54 PM

If your aquahot reservoir is hot, and the pumps are running, and the DC fans on the cozy heaters are running then you should have heat unless the supply hoses to the cozy heaters are pinched. It might be worth a look at the rear panel of the AquaHot unit is nothing seems to be working. I've been all through mine troubleshooting a separate issue.

Electra 225 · 12-02-2022, 05:00 PM

I'm not familiar with the OP's particular model. But with most Aquahot units if you have cold air at a heat exchanger, with everything else seemingly normal, then most likely a check valve is stuck.
Just tap on the top of it and it usually frees right up.

SamKVA · 12-02-2022, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electra 225

I'm not familiar with the OP's particular model. But with most Aquahot units if you have cold air at a heat exchanger, with everything else seemingly normal, then most likely a check valve is stuck.
Just tap on the top of it and it usually frees right up.

It's a 450D and great advice. It may apply to this particular issue as it's only the front exchanger that's putting out cold air. I didn't know that in my original post as I didn't check both exchangers but just did. The rear unit is fine so the AH burner portion is working fine (?). However, where are the check valves. This would also explain why my wife freezes while she is working mid-ship in cold weather when I turn on the "heat" for her while driving.

With all this advice, I may be nearing a solution assuming the fluid level issue is really resolved and I suspect a pinched hose could also cause issues with fluid level filling and sensing. The front unit on the 40IH is in the DS front slide and under the slide out kitchen cabinet. I will slide that cabinet out tomorrow to determine if that's the problem when driving and as now when glided in.

Sam

alank · 12-02-2022, 06:31 PM

Turn on the Aqua Hot for heat in all areas, then go down to the Aqua Hot bay and feel the loop lines coming out of the Aqua Hot. They all should be hot to the touch, if one isn't, then no boiler fluid is going through it. Suggestions for things to check have already been mentioned.

SamKVA · 12-02-2022, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alank

Turn on the Aqua Hot for heat in all areas, then go down to the Aqua Hot bay and feel the loop lines coming out of the Aqua Hot. They all should be hot to the touch, if one isn't, then no boiler fluid is going through it. Suggestions for things to check have already been mentioned.

Since we are now already a day late leaving for our planned trip, I decided to glide out the kitchen counter/cabinet extension and that didn't make any difference; extending the D/S slide didn't either. A possible help is that none of the front exchangers are working. At this point, a stuck valve would be ideal as trying to trace a kinked hose could be a real bear and being a loop, supply and return hoses are suspect.

Worst part of all this is it has never worked and I always thought it was operator error learning how to use the engine heat and AH while driving so I never reported it to our dealer or Tiffin. AH is very aware but this may be a factory install issue. Our AH is used 99% of the time for hot water as the 3 heat pumps have served our needs so far. The fluid level problem obviously also impacts hot water but never popped at the same time.

I'm a pretty darn good DIY guy and even if I'm not comfortable fixing this, it would be great to tell the service center where the problem is likely located. I just hope that only center isn't Red Bay.

Thanks again to all!!
Sam

zombiewoof · 12-02-2022, 08:30 PM

One final thought. There are brass check valves on the front of the unit, one for each loop. The valves are attached to the body of the unit and the circulation pump hoses attached to those. Since you are getting hot water to the rear cozy heaters, at least what I inferred from your previous post, it is only the front loop that has no hot water. It really looks like the check valve for the front loop is not working. You said you never used the AquaHot heating. It is possible this valve is stuck from some type of build up or debris, maybe from non use, manufacturing debris, or other, or, the valve may have been installed backwards. I do not know who installs the valve, the manufacturer (AquaHot) or the installer (Tiffin). Given the recent quality issues (I had a 2020 IH that was mostly unuseable) it is not impossible for valve to be defective of installed incorrectly. I hope you can get this resolved without a lot of heart ache.

Electra 225 · 12-02-2022, 08:39 PM

Sam, like "alank" said, feel the hose on output side of each zone's pump. The pumps are round and made of black plastic mounted on the floor of the Aquahot unit toward the front. The one with a cold hose is the one with a stuck check valve. Follow the supply hose to that pump to the back wall of the unit. The check valve is a brass piece, tap on the top of it. Go back and check the hose, if it's starting to warm up you've freed the valve.
You now should have heat inside at the heat exchanger.
Apologies if I am repeating some of what others have said.....I started my post right after alank's post but got detained. Just got back to it now.

SamKVA · 12-02-2022, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electra 225

Sam, like "alank" said, feel the hose on output side of each zone's pump. The pumps are round and made of black plastic mounted on the floor of the Aquahot unit toward the front. The one with a cold hose is the one with a stuck check valve. Follow the supply hose to that pump to the back wall of the unit. The check valve is a brass piece, tap on the top of it. Go back and check the hose, if it's starting to warm up you've freed the valve.
You now should have heat inside at the heat exchanger.
Apologies if I am repeating some of what others have said.....I started my post right after alank's post but got detained. Just got back to it now.

Bill,

This is all great info. Repetition is a good thing and sometimes even necessary!

I've had the AH unit cover off several times over the past two years and aware of the pump layout you describe. If I recall correctly in my now almost (wishfully thinking) sleep, the brass check valves are just behind each pump. I had no idea until now that's what they were but cool that I now know. Hopefully, the rain here will hold off long enough in the morning so I can continue this effort. At least it won't be at 4:00 AM and 30 degrees outside as it was this morning.

Thanks again to all; this has been a great discussion.
Sam

Props2 · 12-03-2022, 08:04 AM

Sam, Your problem sounds very similar as a friend with the same year and model. Kinked hoses!! If your hoses are black with a green stripe running, they seem to be susceptible to kinking. Maybe EcoRick will chime in and give some details on what Red Bay is doing about it. His issue was the front zone also.

EcoRick · 12-03-2022, 08:33 AM

I have the same year and model coach and had a chronic issue with kinked hoses. From day one I had problems with cold air blowing through the front zones. They would fix the kink, reroute the lines and the problem would return after a few times of running the slide outs in and out. I called Bob after this was in the shop 6 times for this problem (including the warranty trip to Red Bay) and he had it shipped to Red Bay. The root cause is the hoses are cut way too long. The tech that worked on it this time said the year and model of our coach have experienced this issue often. Very tough to find and fix. Cutting the hose to shorten it has side effects, sometimes adding air to the lines. He once again rerouted the lines to try and avoid them getting kinked by the water lines. He also had to wrap the hose with the more rigid plastic water lines where kinks occurred since they have a memory and will easily kink again. I could fill up the page with the effort I went through to fix this so if you want more info, please send a private message and we could talk through it.

greeneville1 · 12-03-2022, 08:44 AM

Our 2021 45OPP came from the factory with inoperative front aquahot air handlers (cozies). Trip to Red Bay ,technician confirmed kinked front aquahot hoses under slideout with front slideout extended. He rerouted the hoses and we did have heat in the front of the bus. But leaving Red Bay, we discovered that we had no front heat with front slide retracted. So it goes. Stay safe.