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Old 12-08-2022, 09:16 AM   #1
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2022 EPA DEF Regs.

I am likely out of touch with the many court cases related to the EPA authority relating to the DEF System Requirements. I would appreciate a knowledgeable person who knows if any DEF AFTER TREATMENT SYSTEM mandates or use requirements
Have been removed or altered as far as DEF affects on Recreational Vehicles are concerned.

Thank you
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:33 AM   #2
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Its is still a violation of federal law to defeat or remove emissions devices including DEF after treatment resulting in potentially heavy fines.

Also shops are required to report it and are not allowed to service it. Dealers also cannot sell it and you open yourself up to lawsuits from private party sales.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...tA-sec7522.htm
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:01 AM   #3
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2022 EPA- Cummins Aftertreatment - regulation changes

Thank you jharrel, what I am searching for are new lawsuits and Supreme Court decisions relating to the EPA authority relating to After treatment (DEF) system
Requirements that may have and or are changing due to challenges of the EPA Authority. We who still believe in individual rights wish to follow the court challenges to the EPA Authority, getting current updates is not always easy and my request is for any NEW changes that may have or are scheduled to occur relating to RV and After treatment regs.
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Old 12-09-2022, 10:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Requirements that may have and or are changing due to challenges of the EPA Authority.
I do not believe there have been any recent or successful challenges to the US code 42-7522 since being enacted in the 1970's.

It has been illegal to tamper or remove emission equipment in motor vehicles for many decades, enforcement however has been increased over the last few years due to the large number of people and businesses doing so with regard to diesel emissions.

You can follow enforcement case activity here: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clea...se-resolutions

I also believe the next phase of more stringent regulations for on-road diesel engines is currently being proposed and refined for 2027 MY, part of the proposal is requiring a much longer warranty on emissions systems to at least 350,000 miles and 5 years:

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/indu...d-epa-nox-rule
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:39 PM   #5
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Hi - Also remember that the right to individual freedoms also includes the right to breathe air that is not harmful or causes illnesses. It's a two edged sword.



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Old 12-10-2022, 09:17 AM   #6
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Common Sense-is this a right?

It seems that we have so many in our midst that are simply CONTRARY and opposed to just about anything.

I am talking about a safety issue that some moron(s) who do not drive up and down mountains in Semi-trucks weighing 80,000 pounds or RV units weighing 35,000 or more, who are running 65 to 80 mph coming up behind a RV with 6 people aboard doing 5 mph. Who has what right here. Yes the right to be ran over and killed so some other non involved pencil driver get's his regulations enforced.

No good and decent person should want their loved ones exposed to being harmed in a vehicle accident when a extreme unsafe act is forced on them IF THEIR VEHICLE HAS A DEF FAULT ON THE HIGHWAY.

Can't wait until Aircraft are slowed to 5 MPH due to a EPA type reg, yeah just imagine.
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Old 12-14-2022, 06:16 PM   #7
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Hi - Also remember that the right to individual freedoms also includes the right to breathe air that is not harmful or causes illnesses. It's a two edged sword.



Tom

I would like to read this document, can you provide it?
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Old 12-14-2022, 07:21 PM   #8
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I would like to read this document, can you provide it?
The full text is located here: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...e42-chap85.htm

Although in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." is usually enough for me to justify that clean air is an unalienable right as it is hard to have life or liberty or be happy with polluted air that causes me or my family to be ill or otherwise be harmed.

If you want historical reference the US prescribes to the public trust doctrine going back to Roman law: "by the law of nature these things are common to all mankind: the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea."
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Old 12-14-2022, 08:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
It seems that we have so many in our midst that are simply CONTRARY and opposed to just about anything.



I am talking about a safety issue that some moron(s) who do not drive up and down mountains in Semi-trucks weighing 80,000 pounds or RV units weighing 35,000 or more, who are running 65 to 80 mph coming up behind a RV with 6 people aboard doing 5 mph. Who has what right here. Yes the right to be ran over and killed so some other non involved pencil driver get's his regulations enforced.



No good and decent person should want their loved ones exposed to being harmed in a vehicle accident when a extreme unsafe act is forced on them IF THEIR VEHICLE HAS A DEF FAULT ON THE HIGHWAY.



Can't wait until Aircraft are slowed to 5 MPH due to a EPA type reg, yeah just imagine.


EPA maynot slow airplanes up 5 mph. But, they are doing their best to eliminate 100LL AVGAS from the market place.
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Old 12-14-2022, 09:06 PM   #10
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EPA maynot slow airplanes up 5 mph. But, they are doing their best to eliminate 100LL AVGAS from the market place.
Good, leaded gas is stupid and planes should have got rid of when cars did:

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Old 12-15-2022, 07:26 AM   #11
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Where has common sense gone to.

I submitted a information search request after enduring a DANGERIUOS 5 mph DERATE recently. Mr. Harrell who apparently is clairvoyant, advised me that I ignored several messages and did nothing to determine why I had a check engine light. I explained to this man, #1, I did in fact look into to all normal functions, oil level in engine, engine temp and coolant level, trans temp and fluid level, oil pressure, and in doing this I stopped vehicle, then restarted to recheck guages, hoping a restart may clear check engine alarm, Later I stopped for fuel, now up until I stopped for furl, my speed was not inhibited. Upon restart from refuel, I was limited to 5MPH.
2. I read or saw no indication that I was going to be DERATED to 5 mph if I stopped and restarted engine, 1,2,3 more times, so I Guess Mr. Harrell has such a feature on his buggy, but I do not. Had I have known I could only turn the key off
And back on only X number of times, I obviously would have not done that until I was at a suitable Cummins or Freightliner service facility.
3. My original group of information gathering posts, were and are to enlighten similar operators of this kind of issue, and also to gain knowledge about the ECM
Logic, signal inputs and what signal causes what action. I also want the EPA, Cummins, Freightliner and other manufacturers to consider improvement to both the Dash Readout in regards to something as important as how many more times you may turn the key off and back on before you are creeping down the road.
Plus, due to parts shortages, that cause long wait times for repairs, some relief can be implemented by the driver, perhaps a phone call to a special 1-800- number set up by the engine mfg. and EPA, of any numbers of similar alternative solutions to make this event safe for all and much less cost for toes and delays.

4. Last of all, someone complained about my angry reply to Mr. Harrell, well, I don't wish to be angry unless provoked, that is why the word provoked was created, but I am only trying to get people more involved in sharing solutions
And not in challenging my motives or integrity. Thank all of you who feel this way
And this site will continue to provide valuable assistance to many who have MH issues. Thank you
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Old 12-15-2022, 08:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
I submitted an information search request after enduring a DANGERIUOS 5 mph DERATE recently. Mr. Harrell who apparently is clairvoyant, advised me that I ignored several messages and did nothing to determine why I had a check engine light. I explained to this man, #1, I did in fact look into to all normal functions, oil level in engine, engine temp and coolant level, trans temp and fluid level, oil pressure, and in doing this I stopped vehicle, then restarted to recheck guages, hoping a restart may clear check engine alarm, Later I stopped for fuel, now up until I stopped for furl, my speed was not inhibited. Upon restart from refuel, I was limited to 5MPH.
It doesn't take a clairvoyant to know that a check engine light should not be ignored. You keep saying the derate is dangerous, yet it gave you plenty of warning, and you continued to proceed with an active CEL. The reason it waits until you stop and restart it so it doesn't do it while you are driving, this may have been inconvenient but I fail to see how it's dangerous, that behavior is specifically for safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
2. I read or saw no indication that I was going to be DERATED to 5 mph if I stopped and restarted engine, 1,2,3 more times, so I Guess Mr. Harrell has such a feature on his buggy, but I do not. Had I have known I could only turn the key off
And back on only X number of times, I obviously would have not done that until I was at a suitable Cummins or Freightliner service facility.
No indication other than a check engine light! What if it had been warning you of incorrect throttle position sensor readings? You could have lost throttle control at any time, there are many problems the ECU will pickup without outward sign, this is why you get your codes read ASAP!

Your profile says you have a 2012 Tiffin Phaeton QBH this either has a Frieghtliner or Powerglide chassis, both are equipped with a digital display that can display fault codes here is a 2012 Phaeton with Frieghtliner display which all chassis past 2007 have:

Click image for larger version

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Here is how you read fault codes so that you can call Freightliner and they can advise on DERATE:

Click image for larger version

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If you have a Powerglide chassis I can dig up that procedure as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
4. Last of all, someone complained about my angry reply to Mr. Harrell, well, I don't wish to be angry unless provoked, that is why the word provoked was created, but I am only trying to get people more involved in sharing solutions
And not in challenging my motives or integrity.
The moderators do not like name a calling and personal attacks, that was your choice, I have no idea who reported your post. Perhaps you should stop blaming others and attacking them and listen to the great wealth of advice you have been given, we can disagree respectfully. I have only tried to provide accurate information to you so that in the future you can avoid the derate situation and also not run afoul of emissions laws.
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Old 12-15-2022, 10:25 AM   #13
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Folks, we need to let this go. Good old Jerry is on some sort of crusade about alleged DEF derate, EPA regulations and supposed safety issues as well as some other root dissatisfaction with life in general. He has posted at least separate times 3 times about this. Time to let him rant without response.

Regards & safe travels,
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Old 12-15-2022, 11:29 AM   #14
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Folks, we need to let this go. Good old Jerry is on some sort of crusade about alleged DEF derate, EPA regulations and supposed safety issues as well as some other root dissatisfaction with life in general. He has posted at least separate times 3 times about this. Time to let him rant without response.

Regards & safe travels,
Fully agree! In fact when you look at the history, there were even more of these posts last year. It all appears to have started with the desire to delete the DEF system based on inaccurate information: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/rem...em-521660.html. Given that these threads go south (disclaimer; nothing against the south) very quickly based on the less than accurate information coupled with the attacks on opposing, but completely logical points of view, me thinks all of these threads should be locked... but that's just me.
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