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Old 10-14-2011, 11:31 AM   #1
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220V Stove?

I was just over in the class A motorhome discussion about all electric RVs. This is what one of the responders said:

QUOTE: TIFFIN all electric option comes with a glass INDUCTION electric cooktop (faster )& free set of compatible cookware but can only be used with 50a shore or 10-12kw generator power as it requires 220volts to operate-not useable on inverter power !!UNQUOTE

Can that 220V stove really be true? Does anybody here have one of those? Seems sort of impractical...but I could be wrong.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:42 AM   #2
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If true, this could be problematic. Some RV parks, in order to upgrade their 30 amp facilities to 50 amp, simply tap onto the existing 30 amp live leg and connect it as the other live leg in the receptacle. This works as long as there is no 240 volt loads because each phase is 120 volts to ground but when measured from phase to phase the voltage is 0(zero).
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:02 PM   #3
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220v stove???

Good grief.

The difference between a "motor home" and a "mobile home" gets harder to figure out all the time!

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Old 10-14-2011, 12:20 PM   #4
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It was a matter of time. With people replacing their refrigerators with house models, the gas stove was the only other obstruction to going all electric. There are some Hydro-Hot units that already have 240 volt heating elements.
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:59 PM   #5
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Why don't they just take the wheels off and get it over with?

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:49 PM   #6
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The current run of all-electric coaches from Tiffin comes with an INDUCTION smooth surface cook top. It is NOT running on 220V but on one phase of it which is 120V .... just like a microwave / convection oven...

You can never run this kind of device off inverter without " issues " .... the current draw on microwaves is very high indeed and when ya need to cook ya need to be on SP or fire up the genset. Just like ya can't run your A/C or heat pumps off the inverter but they will work peachy on shore power or genset. This is why God invented them big quiet diesel generators with auto-start.

Not a big problem for many folks.... BUT it's not sumthin I want myself. If I had a BUS with Hydro Hot heating on diesel then it would be pretty easy to push myself into removing the LP tanks system completely and going all-electric... I prefer the two gas furnaces and a gas cook top myself. We seldom use the furnaces and a tank of LP lasted us a year and a half. The cook tops now are pretty slick, but ya need special pots and pans and such and ya have to watch ya don't scratch the top sliding things around on the surface. I like a plain old gas burner just fine.

YMMV
JMHO
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:04 PM   #7
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Have owned a 2012 Allegro Bus for about a month now. The induction cooktop requires 50 amp service or the generator to operate. It does require 220V. Through the use of the energy management system it will know if the park has created a "funny" 50 amp setup.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:51 PM   #8
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I realize that ya need a 50A supposedly to run yer cooktop.... BUT...
are ya SURE it is using current from both the 120V lines at once, or is it using about 30A on one phase? Even yer 10-12K gensets don't put out a true 220V but rather two 120V lines .

Interesting.
I know that the cooktop I had looked at on a Bus last year was actually a 120V unit. If the latest iteration is truly a 220V unit, then I for sure stand corrected yet again.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannonvaggon View Post
I realize that ya need a 50A supposedly to run yer cooktop.... BUT...
are ya SURE it is using current from both the 120V lines at once, or is it using about 30A on one phase? Even yer 10-12K gensets don't put out a true 220V but rather two 120V lines .

Interesting.
I know that the cooktop I had looked at on a Bus last year was actually a 120V unit. If the latest iteration is truly a 220V unit, then I for sure stand corrected yet again.
Our 12.5 gen puts out true 240v (we have a all electric coach with a 240v residential dryer).
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:48 AM   #10
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I most assuredly DO have to stand corrected.

The current model Summitt induction cooktop being installed by TMH is a true 220V unit which is wired through a double pole breaker....
so it won't operate on one line phase or the other but needs both. It ain't gonna work on a 30A feed at all.

On the other hand, it doesn't use as many AMPS cuz of the higher voltage.

There ya go. Learn sumtin every day....
I STILL don't want one them though ....
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:53 AM   #11
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If true, this could be problematic. Some RV parks, in order to upgrade their 30 amp facilities to 50 amp, simply tap onto the existing 30 amp live leg and connect it as the other live leg in the receptacle. This works as long as there is no 240 volt loads because each phase is 120 volts to ground but when measured from phase to phase the voltage is 0(zero).
If L1 and L2 are in phase as you describe, another silent but potentially deadly problem exists. Since current in the common Neutral is additive, if both hot legs (i.e., L1 and L2) are drawing 50 amps in a properly wired 50 amp RV service, the legs are 180° out of phase, so the Neutral current is 50 amps + (-50 amps) = 0 amps. However, if the 50 amp RV service is miswired such that the hot legs are in phase, Neutral current in our example is 50 amps + 50 amps = 100 amps, and the common Neutral will be overloaded since it is only sized for 50 amps. This can result in a meltdown of the Neutral circuit and fire.

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Old 10-19-2011, 01:43 PM   #12
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If L1 and L2 are in phase as you describe, another silent but potentially deadly problem exists. Since current in the common Neutral is additive, if both hot legs (i.e., L1 and L2) are drawing 50 amps in a properly wired 50 amp RV service, the legs are 180° out of phase, so the Neutral current is 50 amps + (-50 amps) = 0 amps. However, if the 50 amp RV service is miswired such that the hot legs are in phase, Neutral current in our example is 50 amps + 50 amps = 100 amps, and the common Neutral will be overloaded since it is only sized for 50 amps. This can result in a meltdown of the Neutral circuit and fire.

Rusty

Whew! Is there a simple way to check for that type of shore power before plugging in?
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:53 PM   #13
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I suspect you have a power monitor in your coach that takes care of that for you. By that I mean that, if it doesn't see 240VAC across L1 to L2, it defaults to 30 amp service.

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Old 10-19-2011, 02:44 PM   #14
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If L1 and L2 are in phase as you describe, another silent but potentially deadly problem exists. Since current in the common Neutral is additive, if both hot legs (i.e., L1 and L2) are drawing 50 amps in a properly wired 50 amp RV service, the legs are 180° out of phase, so the Neutral current is 50 amps + (-50 amps) = 0 amps. However, if the 50 amp RV service is miswired such that the hot legs are in phase, Neutral current in our example is 50 amps + 50 amps = 100 amps, and the common Neutral will be overloaded since it is only sized for 50 amps. This can result in a meltdown of the Neutral circuit and fire.

Rusty
You are absolutely correct. These parks who trying to make a 30 amp service look like 50 amps are doomed to failure at best and destruction at worst. RVer's should be aware when testing voltage at the pedestal that a L1-L2 reading of 0 will significantly load their neutral. In addition the additional load on the neutral will create more voltage drop problems in the park.

In my last discussion with Progressive Industries, I was told they were going to try to incorporate the L1-L2 test. I got the impression they were trying to accomplish this on their existing control board and not do a redesign. At the time they weren't sure if they could do it or when it would be available. My guess is they already have the L1-L2 voltage relationship the problem is how to indicate it for the different readings. Since some parks are using a three phase 120/208 volt service to upgrade their electrical service the L1-L2 test is even more important.

RVer's should know phase to phase voltage relationships especially when those RV's have true 240 appliances and anything less will reduce their performance.
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