Community Forums

Oliver220 · 06-22-2015, 01:54 PM

Turning left is a problem because of the huge blind spot caused by the Mirror and the width of the windshield post. This could be a safety concern. Has anyone found this to be a problem?

BFlinn181 · 06-22-2015, 03:26 PM

Now that you are aware of the issue, a second look or leaning forward or back should expose what's hidden. I've never had a vehicle that didn't have a 'blind spot' either in the front, side, or back. You learn to adapt or you bend metal or crack fiberglass.

AZ Sightseer · 06-22-2015, 07:04 PM

This is a big concern on my 2012 34TGA with the front-mounted mirrors. I never experienced this concern with side mounted mirrors. We were in a snowstorm in late April this year in CO, the snow was wet and settled on the outer edge of the windshield pushed there by the wipers, and completely obliterated the use of the front-mounted mirrors. I agree with you, this is a serious safety problem. Makes me wonder if Tiffin didn't go back to side mounted mirrors in the newer models.

Oliver220 · 06-23-2015, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

Now that you are aware of the issue, a second look or leaning forward or back should expose what's hidden. I've never had a vehicle that didn't have a 'blind spot' either in the front, side, or back. You learn to adapt or you bend metal or crack fiberglass.

I have been "Motor-homing" it for more years than I care to mention. I am on motorhome #6 currently. They all have had their nuance's. Everyone learns to "adapt". However this one has the worst "blind spot" of the lot.
Tiffin could have engineered it better.
Were I 6'10" I could adapt, being 5'10" I will live with it.

luvlabs · 06-23-2015, 07:57 AM

Whether you have front or side mounted mirrors; a Tiffin, a Winnebago, a Forrest River, or a Newmar; a $100k or $1mm coach - you will always have a blind spot. Learn to move your head and even your upper body, if needed, to get to the position to see what you are looking for. If the mirror doesn't block your vision, the A pillar will, so deal with it or stop driving a motorhome.

**Lt Dan** · 06-23-2015, 08:05 AM

This may be over simplified, but can you swing the mirror more to the side so that you view it through the side window? That's the only way I have full view of mine on our new 38QRA.

Oliver220 · 06-23-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Whether you have front or side mounted mirrors; a Tiffin, a Winnebago, a Forrest River, or a Newmar; a $100k or $1mm coach - you will always have a blind spot. Learn to move your head and even your upper body, if needed, to get to the position to see what you are looking for. If the mirror doesn't block your vision, the A pillar will, so deal with it or stop driving a motorhome.

Learn to move your head or even your upper body- Gee, why didn't I think of that.
Or stop driving a motorhome. Very constructive. Not what I would expect from this forum.

BFlinn181 · 06-23-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver220

Learn to move your head or even your upper body- Gee, why didn't I think of that.
Or stop driving a motorhome. Very constructive. Not what I would expect from this forum.

What did you expect? Your question was, "Has anyone found this to be a problem?" More than one response was, once you recognize the problem, deal with it.

Did you want a new RV from Tiffin? Or perhaps just new mirrors that wouldn't impede your view? You could purchase new mirrors, hang them from the top of the A pillars and cause you to have to look up to see behind you. You can purchase small cameras that reveal your hidden view and display it on a dash display monitor. Or hire a driver so you can relax, or perhaps have a co-driver call out when your obstructed view is clear.

I remember in my younger days, before rear view mirrors were required on both sides, an elderly driver complaining that rear view mirrors just block your vision ahead and to the sides, cars behind were responsible when overtaking so you don't need them. Sounds like you are in agreement with that old gentleman.

gorwig · 06-24-2015, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

What did you expect? Your question was, "Has anyone found this to be a problem?" More than one response was, once you recognize the problem, deal with it......

Yes, I consider it a problem, and yes, I have tried to deal with it. However, that does not mean that a smart engineer can't find a way to make later models better. My current 2014 34TGA has a BAD blind spot caused by the mirror when you try to see around it to prepare for a left turn. It takes a lot of bending forward and back to see around it. The position of the mirror also lines up with really distracting window reflections that come from the passenger side of the motorhome. My previous motorhome had a top down mounted mirror and it did not have these problems. However, it was not perfect. You had to look UP to use the rear view mirrors. This took your eyes out of the normal range of vision for looking straight out the windshield so it, too, required time and practice to adjust to it.

Maybe someday someone will come up with a "see through" mirror or some other brilliant solution to the problem!

Oliver220 · 06-24-2015, 10:16 AM

Hello: BFlinn181. Your response was so long I didn't "Quote" for fear I would excess my word count. I will address each item; "Has anyone found this to be a problem" Yes, Several OPEN ROAD drivers have responded here and on the Tiffin rv net forum. They agree with me.
"Do you want a new RV from Tiffin" Yes, A new Phaeton. I will put this in the "When hell freezes over" column.
"Hire a driver so you can relax" I'll see if Bob Tiffin is available, after all it was his "designers" that caused the problem. I'm hesitate to call them engineers, I don't what to impugn my profession. I will also put this in the "When hell freezes over" column.
"The elderly driver" comment doesn't apply. "Overtaking cars" are not a problem, left turns are.
All of your other suggestions are not worth comment.
I do suggest that you get out of your 17 year old Gulf Stream and take a test drive in a new Open Road, Then make first hand comments on the blind spot.
I thing we have beaten this horse to death. How much more can one say.

BFlinn181 · 06-24-2015, 11:21 AM

My 17 year old RV is paid for and everything works, thank you very much. Why would I buy a new rig, having to spend my cash for something I already have? You asked a question, I answered it. Others answered along the same vane. You replied in a sarcastic manner. I suggested some more help, some a bit tongue in cheek and inventive, but trying to be helpful none the less.

The final thing to say would be, rather than complain on this forum, have you contacted Tiffin with your concerns or suggestions? Have you reported it to the NTSB as a hazard? Instead of continuing to vent on here, take some action where it can have real effect. Contact Tiffin with video or photos of the blocked view. Re-mount your mirrors where you want. Do more than gritch on a forum, disparaging anyone that suggests solutions you don't want to hear.

Oliver220 · 06-25-2015, 11:16 AM

Hello again BFlinn181; First I will post this quote from an owner of an Open Road Motorhome. This is one of the 9 owners of the coach that agree with me on the blind spot. This one from the Tiffin rv network.
"My fear is to have a child disobey the crosswalk signs and run in front of me when turning left. There would not be enough time to roll down the window or even see around the mirror as it is mounted. With a constant field of view you have a chance to avoid hitting the child. Safety should be paramount with cost not even entering the discussion".

1st, the post was directed at Open Road drivers with the simple question "Has anyone found this to be a problem" Others that don't drive the coach can't be aware of the problem.
Sarcasm, definitely, remarks like "Stop driving a motorhome" or "Hire a driver" and other sarcastic remarks make you fair game. All from people that have never driven the coach.

The purpose of the post was to get input from other Open Road drivers and contact Tiffin about the problem. That was done 2 days ago. I will file that in the "When hell freezes over" column while waiting there response.

Had yours and others remarks been less condescending we would not be having this discussion.

BFlinn181 · 06-25-2015, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver220

I will file that in the "When hell freezes over" column while waiting there response.

Had yours and others remarks been less condescending we would not be having this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver220

Learn to move your head or even your upper body- Gee, why didn't I think of that.
Or stop driving a motorhome. Very constructive. Not what I would expect from this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver220

Hello: BFlinn181. Your response was so long I didn't "Quote" for fear I would excess my word count..... I'm hesitate to call them engineers, I don't what to impugn my profession.....All of your other suggestions are not worth comment.
.....I do suggest that you get out of your 17 year old Gulf Stream and take a test drive in a new Open Road,

Speaking of condescending tone and sarcasm! As I've said, most all vehicles have blind spots. You either learn to deal with them, sell the vehicle, or, in the case of mirrors, not difficult (but expensive) to move them. I spent many years driving and dealing with school buses. Often the mirrors were not placed in mind of unobstructed view, it only got worse as laws mandated more mirrors to show right in front of the hood and other spots you couldn't see. Finally they started building buses with chopped hoods and other designs to allow better vision. But as the new laws went into effect, buses already in service were 'modified' by adding convex mirrors below or in addition the the ones already in place. Views got more blocked by the additional required mirrors. Of course these mandates came with no money, so school districts had to deal with them with limited funds. I dealt with the mandates and trained drivers to recognize the issue and deal with it.

You seem to like to wait for Hell freezing over. In your communications with Tiffin, did you include links to this and the other forums you say make this a major safety concern? Have you communicated this to NHTSA to see if they should be involved? Home | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Or are you going to wait until Hell freezes over, a doubtful event what with climate change going in the opposite direction.

--Bob

luvlabs · 06-26-2015, 08:33 AM

Go BFlinn Go! The OP needs to step back and take a new look at this. No, an overwhelming number of us on TRVN do not back him - we've ignored him. No, an overwhelming number of IRV2 members do not back him either. The mirror arrangement and forward vision does not vary with other Allegro Open Road Models - the front ends are all the same.

I have a 2014 Phaeton with side mounted mirrors (versus the front mount ones on the Open Roads) and yes, it still has blind spots when making a left turn. So did my 2012 Open Road. Come to think of it, my Honda Fit has blind spots when making left hand turns as well and it has a window between the mirror and a-piller.

And a note to Oliver220: Tiffin will thank you for your concerns and then promptly ignore it because all of the other owners of Open Roads (est. 15-20,000 still on the road) haven't complained. So, if you want something changed you are going to have to do it yourself. Others have made suggestions on how you might accomplish this. In the meantime, I would stop with the public outbursts since you beginning to look like someone on a one man campaign to fix something you personally don't like but, the vast majority of owners of motorhomes don't find to be a problem or have learned to deal with.