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03-26-2022, 04:12 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
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The Phaeton has two strains. Most models on a freighliner straight axle chassis, and then the 40IH and 44OH on Tiffin or Freighliner chassis with independent front suspension. The 40IH and 44OH also include flat floor and taller storage, and multiple stage engine brake. So chassis-wise the 40IH and 44OH are more like the bus, but without the side radiator.
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Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
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03-26-2022, 10:05 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: WA State
Posts: 12
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We purchased a 2021 Phaeton 37bh with 380hp turbo, Allison 3000 ,transmission, in January 2021. Love it.
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03-27-2022, 06:36 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Port Charlotte (South Gulf Cove), Florida
Posts: 865
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The Phaeton I have though a few years older I find has more than enough inside and basement storage. So with that said my only regrets would be a side radiator vs. the rear one my Phaeton has. Everything MH I've seen with a side radiator accessibility to filters, etc. seem to be easier to access, JMO.
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Dana & Terri along w/ Shadow our 8 y/o Cocker Spaniel
2016 Tiffin Phaeton 44OH
Our Toad: '17 Lincoln MKX
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03-27-2022, 02:25 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Peach Bottom, PA
Posts: 421
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Red 340
We bought a new RED 340 in July 2021. We tow a Jeep Cherokee and have lived in it for 6 months (3 months in Gila Bend AZ and 3 months in Florida) plus a few short trips since the purchase. It's a 340 horse Cummins with the Allison 2500 on a powerglide chassis. I have found it is not under powered at all. We have no problem keeping up with the pack on the highway.
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Ken & Monica, Peach Bottom, PA
2021 Allegro RED340 33AL ISB 6.7 Powerglide, Jeep Cherokee, Blue Ox, FMCA# F520682
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03-27-2022, 05:42 PM
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#19
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Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Avondale, AZ
Posts: 81
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We ordered a 2021 RED 340 in July 2020 and took possession in September 2020. We tow a Buick Lacrosse on an ACME tow dolly. The 340 HP Cummins with the Allison 2500 on a Powerglide chassis (had a choice - 2021 RED 340’s were available with Freightliner or Powerglide chassis). We have ~ 14,000 miles on it now and after having a Coachmen Mirada with the Ford V-10 for 6 years, – we don’t feel it is underpowered at all. We also have no problem keeping up with the pack on the freeway. The bigger diesels will beat me to the top of the mountains – but I’ll pass em when they stop for fuel…
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2021 Tiffin Allegro Red 340 33AL- (PowerGlide)
2014 Coachmen Mirada
ACME Tow Dolly - 2016 Buick LaCrosse
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04-03-2022, 11:21 AM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 56
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Are the 2500 transmissions much smaller or weaker than the 3000? Has anyone had issues with them? it seems most RED's prior to around 2017 are 340/2500's. How about fuel mileage with the ISB RED at say 70mph? We have been shopping and keep coming back to RED's and Phaetons. This will be our first coach.
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04-04-2022, 05:40 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Port Charlotte (South Gulf Cove), Florida
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifguardct
Are the 2500 transmissions much smaller or weaker than the 3000? Has anyone had issues with them? it seems most RED's prior to around 2017 are 340/2500's. How about fuel mileage with the ISB RED at say 70mph? We have been shopping and keep coming back to RED's and Phaetons. This will be our first coach.
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I had a 340/2500 but it was in a Winnebago Forza 38W...40' long DP and had no problems with it driving through the hills on GA & TN towing our toad. If I recall I'd get anywhere from lows 8s to lows 9s for mpg.. I had no complaints cruising along but I tried to keep it around 65. A lot of car mfg. Require 65 or lower towing it and personally I prefer it..not that I wouldn't get up to 70 but your best MPG is around 62 to 65 IMHO. As for my current Tiffin Phaeton it has the 450/3000 and yes its a bigger engine but so isn't the coach 45' long and a lot heavier. It has no problem towing the same toad and has plenty of power going up those same hills plus many back and forth to and around NE but your MPG pays for it. On that trip I had low 6.2 high 8.3 average 4,000 mile trip was 7.5. So my point is don't sweat the power or mpg go with what Floorplan you like. Me I didn't have complaints on the Forza's power in the end it was the Floorplan not enough room for the kids to stay over when back home. Phaeton no regrets plenty of room...
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Dana & Terri along w/ Shadow our 8 y/o Cocker Spaniel
2016 Tiffin Phaeton 44OH
Our Toad: '17 Lincoln MKX
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04-05-2022, 05:09 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Peach Bottom, PA
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifguardct
Are the 2500 transmissions much smaller or weaker than the 3000? Has anyone had issues with them? it seems most RED's prior to around 2017 are 340/2500's. How about fuel mileage with the ISB RED at say 70mph? We have been shopping and keep coming back to RED's and Phaetons. This will be our first coach.
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IMO the RED 340 chassis w/ ISB 6.7 and Allison 2500 is a good combination. The RED is rated at 20 more HP (360) but I doubt it matters much. I have seen on You Tube where some enthusiasts get almost 1000 HP out of a Cummins 6.7 so I doubt the extra 20 HP on the RED realistically means anything in an RV. I rarely drive much over the posted limit as I prefer to be passed than to constantly pass others. I get a consistent 9.6 mpg w/ toad.
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Ken & Monica, Peach Bottom, PA
2021 Allegro RED340 33AL ISB 6.7 Powerglide, Jeep Cherokee, Blue Ox, FMCA# F520682
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04-05-2022, 06:17 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Western NY
Posts: 6,140
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Just another opinion...
I looked at some ISB 6.7 340 HP Alli 2500 MHs but ended up with the 360 HP Alli 3000 and very happy.
I think the 340 / 2500 is perfectly satisfactory or the chassis / MH mfg wouldn't be building them. I havent heard or read about significant problems.
I dont think the 20 HP difference will be a factor... the higher torque ( 660 vs 800 - 850?) might be noticeable in climbing situations but marginal.
Given a choice, I would rater have a tranny that operates at/ near the lower end of tongue rating or at least not at the upper limit. The 2500 is at its max with the 340 HP and cant handle the 360 / 800 Ftlbs. The 3000 can easily handle the 360 and would be my preference if given a choice. Again IMO running the 340 / 2500 in a lot of climbing situations would be roughly akin to running your car / truck towing it's max rated tow and if you do it often consider it severe duty when planning PM intervals. W 360 /3000 you would be back in the normal duty range.
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Don & Marge
'13 Newmar Ventana 3433 - '14 CR-V TOAD
'03 Winnebago Adventurer 31Y - SOLD
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04-05-2022, 03:02 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 217
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I have a 2021 Allegro Red 38ll. It has the 340 hp with the 2500 trans.
I have 95% of my driving pulling my 2012 Lincoln MKX . I believe it weighs about 4300 lbs. I get an average of 10.4 mpg while towing. This includes trips from Oklahoma, New mexico, Texas, typically. I got 10.5 mpg round trip from OKC to Myrtle Beach, SC.
I just made a trip to Moab, UT from OKC and had 40 mph headwinds at a 45 degree angle from head-on when driving from OKC to Albuquerque. Mileage was poor at 8.5 mpg.
Next day from Albq to Moab I got 11.4 mpg (see pic).
The entire trip with no tow car was 10.4 mpg (see pic). I believe it would have been around 11 mpg for the entire trip if We didn't have the high winds on day one.
Hope this helps.
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04-05-2022, 04:01 PM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 56
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Thanks for all the info. We would prefer the ISB 360/3000 or even a 380 or 400/3000 combo but now it sounds like the 340/2500 would be acceptable. I just wondered because Tiffin went to more of the 360/3000 combos in newer models.. We have two flat towable (at any speed) vehicles. A 2019 Cherokee Trailhawk and a 2015 Mini Cooper S (6-speed manual) that we can use if weight is an issue.
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04-06-2022, 11:32 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Redmond, Or.
Posts: 1,659
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We went from a 32SA gasser to a 2017 RED with the 360 hp ISB 6.7. My only negative comment ain’t the RED 33AA we have is that there is less basement storage than what our 32SA had due to the raised Freightliner rail vs F53 chassis. That being said, we still got all we needed to have on the slide out tray but did have to buy a telescoping ladder to replace step ladder that had no place to store. Interior storage is more than we had before and the 4 slides open to a spacious area. We both agreed that we should have gotten this when we first looked at class A’s. For 2 people, it is a great setup and the 35’ length is perfect for us. It is a well appointed unit that if you buy new, can be optioned to a very high level.
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2017 Tiffin Allegro Red 33AA
Cummins ISB 6.7 L
2020 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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04-07-2022, 01:37 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,257
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ISB 340 with 2500 is OK, but 360 with 3000 is much better as the 3000 has an 800 ft lb rating. The 2500 is limited to 700 and the torque curve drops off after it reaches peak.
We have no issues with 340/2500 except when we start climbing 10% or greater grades. Then the rig has to drop down to 3rd gear. That is about 40 mph.
Since what you are considering is an older RED that will sell for a lower price than a new or late model rig, drive one and see how you like it. Do not expect to boost the power on the ISB, because the 2500 will not stand up to the higher power/torque.
There are transmission upgrade houses that have done excellent work on Allison transmissions to get them reliable with 1000 HP on pickup applications. However, I bet the cost for those rebuilds will exceed what it will cost you to purchase a Red with a 3000.
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Travel Safe and with a Smile! Pat
2020 Tiffin Breeze 33BR
2022 Cherokee Trailhawk toad
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