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Old 01-12-2015, 07:46 PM   #1
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Biggest mistake ever?

We’ve just spent the first two weeks in our new DP. This purchase may have been the biggest mistake we’ve ever made. It’s left us thinking “what’s the big deal” and wondering if we really traded “up”.

We did a lot of research, and realized the coach we really wanted would never be in our budget, so we determined the items we’d compromise on and found what we thought was a great coach at a fair price. We negotiated a good deal, made the commitment and bought a used 2014 Tiffin Phaeton 40 QBH. We chose Tiffin because of reputation, loyal owners, the personal approach of company management and coach value/design.

The walk-through was interesting. Most of our questions were met with “read the manual”. It was disappointing. Fortunately, this is not our first coach otherwise, it would have been VERY overwhelming. Even a question about winterizing was met with “we’re down south, we don’t worry about that.”

After the walk-through, the first shock came when we discovered that the gas unit we traded had more storage than this DP unit. Some of the issue was related to the size of storage containers and the related size of cabinets and storage compartments. In the long run, this is forcing us to do an overdue purge.

The next shock came when we went to leave, discovered a check engine/stop engine error and required a tow to a Cummins shop where they found a torn apart wiring harness under the coach. After a repair, we were on our way.

Shock three was the ride. I had always heard the DPs were smoother, quieter and easier to drive. I’m not sure what others are driving, but this is the roughest riding coach I’ve been in and the cab may be missing the engine noise, but road noise is loud. The unit takes road bumps worse than our previous coach. The rough ride caused the light over the dining table to nearly fall on the floor as the support nuts loosened.

As we traveled into the cold weather, we noticed the traveling environment was getting more and more uncomfortable; if the furnace is not on in the back, there is a VERY cold breeze coming into the driver’s compartment from the back of the coach.

We really like the idea of having a pullout desk in front of the passenger, except that this drawer does not latch and is constantly coming out to visit.
My wife has developed a system; she simply uses the footrest on the passenger seat, and kicks it closed when it reaches her feet.

At a rest area, I discovered the backsplash in the half bath is separating from the wall. Overnight we learned that the inverter won’t run the coffee maker, and that there is apparently no heat in the water bay as we had a freeze in 20 degrees. This water issue surprised us because we understood this coach was suitable for winter travel.

Interior cabinets have strange designs. Some have ridges in the back, making it almost impossible to rest an item flat. One evening while attempting to rearrange cabinets, the hinge ripped off one of the overhead cabinet doors.

When we got home, we were in for another surprise in that the propane furnaces stopped working in 10 degrees; regulator froze. However, they also seem to not like this colder weather as even when there is good propane flow to the stove, the furnaces constantly shut down. Out came the electric heaters so we could stock the cabinets with the hinges falling off. Very frustrating! After some investigation and assistance from the dealer, it appears the problem is propane without some additive which prevents freezing in cold weather. We also heard from Tiffin on this; a good sign.

Of course, all these issues can be handled with the extended warranty we bought, except that the warranty company won’t honor it because the coach is already under warranty from the previous owner.

I should mention this coach has a great shower head, really comfortable mattress and an ice maker that kept us in drinks during the evenings …. We needed them because our relax-time prior to bed is normally watching TV, but that was not possible because the bedroom TV doesn’t work!

Sometimes waking up in a tent floating on an air mattress doesn’t seem too far away from what this new coach is offering!

Time for some patience!
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:15 PM   #2
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In warm areas propane is not propane or not 100% propane. Some has butane in it which freezes at a much higher temperature. We had that happen where we got butane in the south and then came north and the temps went down.

As to the storage: the time to think of that was before you put your signature on the contract, not at the walk through or later.
Interior Noise: You didn't drive it before buying?
Wiring harness: mice or rat damage? If so the PDI drive should have caught it.

Not to throw cold water on your purchase but it does seem like the PDI was not a good experience for you. In fact it seems like you didn't really get one.
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:58 PM   #3
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With a really rough ride you need to check if your tire pressures match your weight. I cannot imagine any DP riding worse than a gasser if the airbags are inflated and tire pressures correct.

Are you including basement storage in your comparison of storage space? With that raise rail there is a huge amount of storage.

It would be interesting to know what gas model you had as well as what dealer treated you so poorly so others know where to avoid.

Sorry for your bad experience.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:09 PM   #4
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Getting married the 1st, 2nd and 3rd times. The 4th is great however. But I sure do miss the $$ the first three cost!
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:17 PM   #5
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I agree you never had a PDI. Needless to say you really must drive a coach before purchase, regardless. Even a Newell can have any type of suspension issues. I'm sure your ride will be improved with weighing and adjustments. Alignment, ride height, tire pressure? This is a 2014 surely the dealer will help along with Tiffin and FL if your chassis is FL. I know many Phaeton owners that do not have these issues, just the contrary. As you say patience it's just new coach blues.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:33 PM   #6
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Blues it is....
We all go through some disappointments after spending so much money on something that should be close to perfect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the gas rv's higher off the ground, therefore allowing for a bit more storage? Hoping your bugs are being taken care of soon, and you can get to enjoying life once again. That warranty thing just goesnt sound right. Sounds a bit illegal to me, I would pursue that in a calm manner if posdsible after all you have been through. Sounds like they are collecting off two warranties, and that needs to be reported. Good luck.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:46 PM   #7
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Mr_D, thanks for the info on propane. It's amazing how much you learn after years of RVing. I did test drive, but five miles is different than 500. As for storage, I guess I should have looked and measured everything in my coach so I knew what would fit. Some things just look bigger when they are empty.

Butte64, I'm planning to review air pressure after I get the unit loaded the way we want it and weighed again. The gas model I had was a Newmar Canyon Star 3856.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:53 PM   #8
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You really needed a decent PDI and you sure didn't get one. First you needed to know that only the rear propane heater heats the wet bay. Also while traveling in really cold weather I put a layer of thick beach towels on the wet bay floor because that cold wind can penetrate and even the heater can't keep up.
In regard to the rough ride it absolutely shouldn't be like that. You need to load the coach as you normally would for travel including full fuel, however much water you usually take in the fresh water tank. Then have the coach weighed. Best is 4-corner weight but truck scales will do in a pinch. That weight tells you if you are heavy on an axle so you can adjust stuff to even it out. Most importantly it will tell you what tire pressure to carry. On mine it is 110 on front and 95 on the rear. Dealers tend to inflate the tires to the top which results in a hard ride like you describe. Our 40 QTH rode awful until we had it weighed, now it is smooth.
Coffee pots will drag a battery down fast so I only use high draw stuff on the generator when shore power isn't available. Our inverter is a MSW but yours may be a pure sine wave. Can't remember what year Tiffen started putting in the PSW in Phaetons. I lost 2 pots to the inverter before I learned why they died.
I don't think you have made a huge mistake, I just think the dealer did you wrong. That dealer should make good on the issues. Tiffin will tak care of you and they do authorize repairs done at a place close to you if you call. They stand behind their coaches. It will get better so try not to get too discouraged.
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:26 AM   #9
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If you have a local rv tech where you live, try to get him to go thru the unit with you and get it winterized and answer questions about operating unit. From my limited experience trying to get info and help from the big dealers is usually a waste of time, you get a bunch of double talk from sales and mgmt and can't talk to the rv tech who knows something. Dave
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Old 01-13-2015, 05:29 AM   #10
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Had a buddy once forget to shut off his air dump so the suspension was riding on the stops. Rode like an old cotton wagon. As soon as he realized it he closed the Air Dump, ride height came up and everything was smooth!

Could your ride problem be something similar?

Just asking.
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Old 01-13-2015, 05:38 AM   #11
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Your biggest mistake had nothing to do with the coach. it was the lack of a good pre-sale inspection including test drive, operation of ALL systems, and a couple days of driving around the dealer location with a return to fix all the problems you uncovered.

On top of this, these things are really quirky in real cold weather!
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:00 AM   #12
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Newmar to a Tiffin, right there says it all. Course I'm prejudiced.
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:19 AM   #13
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:36 AM   #14
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Wouldn't they let you drive it or look at the amount of storage before you bought it? Seems strange of them.
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