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Old 01-10-2020, 09:46 PM   #1
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Buying advice for a 2020 Phaeton 40IH

We bought a new 2017 Red 33aa w/360 HP. Have been very happy. I retired May-19 and our camping trips have gone from a ~1 week to 1-2 months. We "need" a bigger rv. Down to an Entegra Anthem 44W or ordering a Tiffin Phaeton 40IH. Have an incredible deal on the Entegra and a good deal on the Tiffin.

Really like the 40IH's independent front suspension, taller storage bays, Power Guide chasis, ride, theater seats, etc. One of the decisions I am struggling with is do I go with the standard 380 HP cummins or get the 450 HP. We do go out west every year to Moab, Colorado, Glacier, etc. So we do a few big mountain climbs each year, but not many.

Any thoughts on 380 HP vs 450 HP decision? Is it needed/other benefits? Any other thoughts/advice on the coach decision would be appreciated. Hopefully this decision will last longer than my 2017 Red 33aa one

Thank you for the help.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:53 PM   #2
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:10 PM   #3
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IMO, for the reasons you state you like the IH, I'd recommend it over the Entegra - but then I'm rather biased. You won't get the extra bay height nor a flat floor interior in an Entegra.

There are many things on the Anthem 44W, because it's bigger, different from the Phaeton 40IH. You can easily find those differences on the mfr websites.

Most posts I've read here, members like the extra HP/torque when pulling out west. You say you do a few trips, but not many. Is the extra $$ spent worth the few times you'll use it? Only you can determine that.

Good luck.

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Old 01-11-2020, 12:43 AM   #4
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The ISL9 380 in the Tiffin can be field upgraded to 450 by any Cummins dealership. Cost varies with the remaining engine warranty time.

So, you can buy with 380 and see how it works out. If not satisfied, do the field upgrade option. Kinda the best of both worlds.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:22 AM   #5
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Do a simple weight/HP comparison. Surprisingly close.

The Phaeton has imo one of the best floor plans available in a coach that size. It's fit and finish is superior and most of the options available on the Entegra come standard with the Tiffin. If I ever go back to a dp the Phaeton would be my choice.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsheetz View Post
...So, you can buy with 380 and see how it works out. If not satisfied, do the field upgrade option. Kinda the best of both worlds.
That's what we're going to do. We'll test it on out west trips & if we're not happy with the mountain performance, we'll chip it up.

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Old 01-11-2020, 01:49 PM   #7
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We have a 40IH and had it upgraded from the 380 to 450 and it was well worth 2600 bucks I spent. The 380 was adequate (we drove it that way for a year) but the 450 does perform really really well in the IH.
As someone mentioned, power to weight the 380 Phaeton will probably be pretty close to the 450 in the Anthem.
The Anthem probably is more comparable to the Tiffin Bus.
Iím also looking at an Entegra but the Aspire as thatís a bit closer in price to what I want to spend.
I will say you canít go wrong with an IH, it is a wonderful coach.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:03 PM   #8
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We have a 40IH and had it upgraded from the 380 to 450 and it was well worth 2600 bucks I spent. The 380 was adequate (we drove it that way for a year) but the 450 does perform really really well in the IH.
As someone mentioned, power to weight the 380 Phaeton will probably be pretty close to the 450 in the Anthem.
The Anthem probably is more comparable to the Tiffin Bus.
Iím also looking at an Entegra but the Aspire as thatís a bit closer in price to what I want to spend.
I will say you canít go wrong with an IH, it is a wonderful coach.
Does the upgrade tend to run hotter,especially in hot weather? Did your DEF consumption change?
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:20 PM   #9
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Does the upgrade tend to run hotter,especially in hot weather? Did your DEF consumption change?
No hotter, the Powerglide cooling system was designed for 450HP. Didnít notice an increase in DEF consumption but Iíve never used enough to really track it.
Right after the upgrade we spent two months in the coach in the mountains of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Utah among other places. Crossed the continental divide a bunch of times. Fuel economy went from 7.4-8.3 MPG.
On the way back from Utah we went thru Arizona and Nevada in 105-110 degree temps without any cooling issues pulling grades in the desert.
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Old 01-12-2020, 09:34 PM   #10
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We have the 380 hp in our 2017 40 IH. It is sufficient for towing, although we only tow a Mini Cooper.
I would like to run with a 450 hp to judge the difference when pulling hills, entering traffic or accelerating back to highway speed after passing through a small town.

I think a heavier towed vehicle would be more noticeable in fuel mileage than lack of power. The Allison transmission shifts so smoothly that you have to look at the display to see if it has downshifted to maintain hill climbing speed when on cruise control. I think the real benefit with the diesel engine is the exhaust brake to manage your speed going down the hill. Both the 380 hp or the 450 hp will have engine brakes so that is a not a decision maker though.

With that all being said I would prefer the 450 hp if I were buying new, (depending on the upcharge) We bought used and have been very satisfied with 380 horses. I do run with a friends Ventana with a 400 hp Cummins and do not realize any difference in power when traveling; it is difficult to compare though. We have not actually tried to race, but it is not as though I have any trouble keeping up with him. I am going to guess that both motorhomes top out around 80 mph, which is too fast for me.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:05 AM   #11
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Go with larger motor in any brand. We purchased a New Aire in August with a 360 and under powered for the weight. Now the 35 New Aire have the 450
We had a 09 phaeton 42qbh with 360 and that too was under powered. In my opinion if you buy anything under a 450 up you will always second guess especially when you already have a question mark in your mind with your post!
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:03 AM   #12
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Betting this is a function of how you travel. If you drop in behind the line on long hills and stay away from the "got to pass left lane jams", the 380 will work great. If you are a run X mph and pass what is ahead when you catch up - on the climbs or the flat, then more hp will get used. The one exception that crosses over both worlds is a ramp entrance where getting up to speed certainly can be a challenge, if the merge is short or for any uphill configuration.

A cooling system that has excess capacity is a very good thing for long term reliability. Power on demand is worth having, always. Since that extra cooling capacity is only utilized when at full power, it still contributes to reliability. So, likely I would go with the 450 unless I could identify a down side to the upgrade. But then conservative use of sufficient but not excessive hp is a long standing strategy for us. Edit - the question here is will heavier loading of the 380 give longer life than lighter loading of the 450. A diesel application is different.

Good luck with your choice. Hope to see you down the road with a smile on your face.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:42 PM   #13
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MCD Power Shades

We too have been looking at the Phaeton .. One of the things we are evaluating is staying with manual mcd window shades .. the other consideration is the Phaeton does not have a side radiator and something to ask is .. if the top of the engine needs to be accessed .. what does that entail .. the Allego Bus does have a side radiator .. but the DEF access door latches on a part of the metal frame which looks like it will hamper filling the DEF tank ..
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:21 PM   #14
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Tiffin doesn't use MCD. At least that's not the brand in our Phaeton.

As for the radiator location, I think that only makes a big difference if you are the one doing the service. We don't so having a rear radiator was a non-issue for us.

Our DEF fill & tank are in a DS bay.

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