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Old 10-01-2022, 04:42 PM   #1
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DEF gauge blank

So I set out this morning from a campground to go home, turned on my rig and my check engine light came in due to low DEF. I knew I had nearly three quarters full, but when I looked at the guage it was totally blank. All other gauges on the dash were working properly. I had extra DEF with me put it in and no difference (wanted to make sure it didnt leak out) I had to get home and thinking that the problem was only a bad connection I went home . I traveled am the way home at normal highway speeds without incident. I assume this is a problem I need to take to a chassis house. Has anyone had a similar issue and would it be safe to drive as long as I know I have DEF but do not have a gauge?

I drive a 2022 Tiffin Allegro Bus 45 OPP.
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Old 10-02-2022, 06:44 PM   #2
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I don’t know if your symptoms indicate a sensor fail or not. You can get a lot of info at
https://defsim.myervin.com/
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Old 10-02-2022, 07:26 PM   #3
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You should check your fault codes and check in the Cummins database. Some of the codes will cause engine to derate. We have had DEF issues 3 times. Fortunately no derate. Now on our 3rd DEF head.
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Old 10-03-2022, 06:31 AM   #4
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Our coach is at Cummins currently. Cummins told me it was a "failed sensor". Tiffin shipped a new sensor and it is expected to arrive today. Hopefully they got the troubleshooting right and are replacing the correct part. These are the lights I got on the dash. I didn't drive it with these on, so I don't know if I would have derated. I used my DSS.

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Old 10-03-2022, 06:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcurci View Post
So I set out this morning from a campground to go home, turned on my rig and my check engine light came in due to low DEF. I knew I had nearly three quarters full, but when I looked at the guage it was totally blank. All other gauges on the dash were working properly. I had extra DEF with me put it in and no difference (wanted to make sure it didnt leak out) I had to get home and thinking that the problem was only a bad connection I went home . I traveled am the way home at normal highway speeds without incident. I assume this is a problem I need to take to a chassis house. Has anyone had a similar issue and would it be safe to drive as long as I know I have DEF but do not have a gauge?



I drive a 2022 Tiffin Allegro Bus 45 OPP.


We just had ours fail last week. Tiffin overnight Gen 7 DEF sensor. Back on the road now.

Fault Codes 3868, 4572 and 4677 Caused by Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Header Malfunction

Light on: clock starts ticking
First hour nothing happens
25% de-rate next two hours
40% de-rate on fourth hour
Will run at 40% until one of three items occur:

The best option for customers caught in this situation is to not do any of the three things he has mentioned:
*
1. Do not turn the ignition off. *Leave the engine running until you get to a safe destination.
2. Do not let the engine idle for more than an hour.
4. Do not buy/add diesel fuel to the fuel tank, if you have to keep it running

In addition to the MIL and check engine light come on 5 miles before our exit the STOP engine light and buzzer was going off! The DEF logo on the dash was also Amber.

I kept driving until we arrived at the campground and set the engine in high idle while checking in. Drove to the site and got set up then contacted Tiffin. They could not have been better. Matt overnight us the part and arranged for a mobile mechanic to make the repair. Very happy with Tiffin on this one!!
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlturner View Post
We just had ours fail last week. Tiffin overnight Gen 7 DEF sensor. Back on the road now.

Fault Codes 3868, 4572 and 4677 Caused by Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Header Malfunction

Light on: clock starts ticking
First hour nothing happens
25% de-rate next two hours
40% de-rate on fourth hour
Will run at 40% until one of three items occur:

The best option for customers caught in this situation is to not do any of the three things he has mentioned:
*
1. Do not turn the ignition off. *Leave the engine running until you get to a safe destination.
2. Do not let the engine idle for more than an hour.
4. Do not buy/add diesel fuel to the fuel tank, if you have to keep it running

In addition to the MIL and check engine light come on 5 miles before our exit the STOP engine light and buzzer was going off! The DEF logo on the dash was also Amber.

I kept driving until we arrived at the campground and set the engine in high idle while checking in. Drove to the site and got set up then contacted Tiffin. They could not have been better. Matt overnight us the part and arranged for a mobile mechanic to make the repair. Very happy with Tiffin on this one!!


Forgot these codes for Tiffin coaches with Shaw Industries DEF tanks:

DEF head monitors all three:

SPN#3364 FMI9 DEF QUALITY
SPN#3031 FMI9 DEF TEMPERATURE
SPN#1761 FMI9 DEF TANK VOLUME
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:09 PM   #7
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You asked if others have had a problem? Don't leave home without it.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f106/def...st-554756.html
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:35 PM   #8
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Something to understand to avoid confusion is that the Fault Codes that Jeff mentions (3868, 4572 and 4677) and then later the SPNs/FMI codes he mentions (1761, 3031, 3364 FMI9) are not actually different codes. The SPN/FMI codes are the actual J1939 data messages and the “Fault Codes” are generated by the ECM to provide info to an OBD2 diagnostic tool (scanner). If you go to Cummins QSOL you can look up either SPN/FMI or Cummins Fault Codes and it will cross-reference each to the other.
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Old 10-03-2022, 12:40 PM   #9
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Also, I wholeheartedly agree with ErnieH. Now that the DSS device has been proven to work 100% in avoiding or correcting deration due to a failed DEF fluid sensor and they can be built by virtually anyone for about $75, if you have a 2016 or later Cummins diesel coach you should have a DSS onboard.
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Old 10-17-2022, 12:46 PM   #10
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Don't recommend the Cummins "Re-Calibration" when your DEF Sensor fails. Yes it will get you back going, but will also put you at the BOTTOM of the TIFFIN list for a replacement DEF Head. I had a DEF head failure with De-rate in Dec 2021. Tiffin put me on the DEF HEAD List. I had it towed (for $1500) to a service shop that could not fix it. I then found out about & built two DEF SENSOR SIMULATORS. They both worked, cleared the codes & drove it to Cummins of Mobile, had the re-calibration done. Simulators are now in my "spare parts kit" and I am still waiting on a replacement SHAW DEF Head 10 months later. With the recalibration the DEF level gauge reads full all the time. Was told by Tiffin service manager Gary Harris that they are allocating new DEF Heads to customers that are "broke down". Since I have had the "re-calibration, I am low priority. He advised that they will be issuing a formal "recall" notification process in first quarter 2023. For now I just wait....

I built two simulators for under $90. Both tested and kept on board.
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Old 10-17-2022, 04:58 PM   #11
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Yup, my last Def head was in 2019 and now waiting for the other shoe to drop. But now carry a simulator
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