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Old 05-13-2022, 05:43 AM   #43
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Treetopguy, I like your approach on being positive. Tiffin did you right on replacing your Schwintek system. I know after reading many posts since joining this forum, not everyone has had a good experience. I've dumped on Tiffin a few times out of frustration of having to go to Red Bay twice. I found when I was in Red Bay I drank the Kool-Aid. I imagine while you were driving to Red Bay, you were prepared to fight if they didn't replace your system with Vroom (my guess). You were successful in convincing them, but some of had 3 failures before convincing them. My guess is your positive attitude helped.



Anyway, like you, I try to be positive if possible, but when someone is in the thick of it with poor workmanship on their rig, it's hard to be positive. But most, like me, come back around and sip the Kool-Aid after their issue is solved. Thanks for documenting and sharing your Red Bay experience.
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Old 05-13-2022, 06:43 AM   #44
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General Tiffin Quality (or lack thereof)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treetopguy View Post
Yes, I did not like your response, but appreciate your reply. I'm not sure what the dark side means to you, but apparently it's not good. I just expressed what I had learned first hand as I talked and walked with the people that work on the Tiffin motorhomes, yet you dismissed any attempts they are making to improve. I learned that there's always a positive side that can make life better for everyone if one chooses that path
The dark side to me is staying in a negative mode and not letting the light in to enjoy.
Sorry that it was hurtful to you.

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My response was sarcastic to treetop, sorry.
I believe the problem with motorhomes in general are one of two things:

Poor designs or quality of parts and systems that a good caring workforce cannot overcome to make a quality product.
Or
Good designs and quality of parts and systems put together with a workforce improperly trained or not caring enough about the end product.

I guess it can be a combination of the two.

As far as my “dark” outlook, you would have to know what We’ve been through over the years to cast a view of my outlook as negative.
I’ve also stated that Tiffin in no worse than others but disappointing based on the price point.
We’ve beat this to death by now.
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:46 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegats1 View Post
Treetopguy, I like your approach on being positive. Tiffin did you right on replacing your Schwintek system. I know after reading many posts since joining this forum, not everyone has had a good experience. I've dumped on Tiffin a few times out of frustration of having to go to Red Bay twice. I found when I was in Red Bay I drank the Kool-Aid. I imagine while you were driving to Red Bay, you were prepared to fight if they didn't replace your system with Vroom (my guess). You were successful in convincing them, but some of had 3 failures before convincing them. My guess is your positive attitude helped.



Anyway, like you, I try to be positive if possible, but when someone is in the thick of it with poor workmanship on their rig, it's hard to be positive. But most, like me, come back around and sip the Kool-Aid after their issue is solved. Thanks for documenting and sharing your Red Bay experience.
I understand you! My drive to Red Bay only had concerns about having my slide working for my upcoming trip to Mount Rushmore with my wife and grandsons. I talked to the service manager about this, and he said they know how to get these slides fix. I asked about the Vroom system. I explained to him my observations about how the drive gears are a casted metal and not a machined gear. At that point we had an even better conversation about the Schwintek mechanisms. He explained that they have had many discussions with Lippert about these issues. Being in business myself, if I saw a defect or need for improvement in one of my products, I would have my engineers pumping out a better system in weeks. Tiffin has made changes and are going to hydraulic systems. This is the point that everyone of us certainly agree! Schwintek Lippert is going to loose a drastic amount of sales by not acknowledging their deficiencies. This is the mistake in quality control, of knowing a problem,but sticking your head in the sand.I wouldn't buy any Lippert stock right now!
Anyway on with my story. They replace my slide with a new Schwintek the first day. I went back to my site and ran it 6 or seven times. It started tearing up the track on one side again. The next day is when I thought I would need to get a little firmer, but didn't have to. Well, that next day they had 4 techs working on it. They would measure, then extend a inch, then measure again. They repeated this through the entire slide travel. They then put on another new schwintek system. (I later found as I was doing my daily walk, that there were 60 complete sets of new schwintek slides sitting outside ready to be used).
When I got back, instead of hearing that it was fixed, they asked me if I wanted the good news or bad news first. I said bad. They said it couldn't be fixed! Well, the good news is that Tiffin called Brian Vroom himself and made a deal to get their system in for my coach. Vroom just can't make enough of these slides, but they were able to get in three sets.
The last day they installed the Vroom. I ran the tar out of it that evening and it ran fine.
My moral to this story is to be gracious, but verify for myself the replacement parts.
My water pump was another item that I had replaced. It would run for a while then overheat and stop. You can bet that I was satisfied with its replacement simply because I ran over 200 gallons through it without a hitch before I left Red Bay.
All is good now and I am planning my trip to South Dakota!

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Old 05-13-2022, 11:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treetopguy View Post
I understand you! My drive to Red Bay only had concerns about having my slide working for my upcoming trip to Mount Rushmore with my wife and grandsons. I talked to the service manager about this, and he said they know how to get these slides fix. I asked about the Vroom system. I explained to him my observations about how the drive gears are a casted metal and not a machined gear. At that point we had an even better conversation about the Schwintek mechanisms. He explained that they have had many discussions with Lippert about these issues. Being in business myself, if I saw a defect or need for improvement in one of my products, I would have my engineers pumping out a better system in weeks. Tiffin has made changes and are going to hydraulic systems. This is the point that everyone of us certainly agree! Schwintek Lippert is going to loose a drastic amount of sales by not acknowledging their deficiencies. This is the mistake in quality control, of knowing a problem,but sticking your head in the sand.I wouldn't buy any Lippert stock right now!
Anyway on with my story. They replace my slide with a new Schwintek the first day. I went back to my site and ran it 6 or seven times. It started tearing up the track on one side again. The next day is when I thought I would need to get a little firmer, but didn't have to. Well, that next day they had 4 techs working on it. They would measure, then extend a inch, then measure again. They repeated this through the entire slide travel. They then put on another new schwintek system. (I later found as I was doing my daily walk, that there were 60 complete sets of new schwintek slides sitting outside ready to be used).
When I got back, instead of hearing that it was fixed, they asked me if I wanted the good news or bad news first. I said bad. They said it couldn't be fixed! Well, the good news is that Tiffin called Brian Vroom himself and made a deal to get their system in for my coach. Vroom just can't make enough of these slides, but they were able to get in three sets.
The last day they installed the Vroom. I ran the tar out of it that evening and it ran fine.
My moral to this story is to be gracious, but verify for myself the replacement parts.
My water pump was another item that I had replaced. It would run for a while then overheat and stop. You can bet that I was satisfied with its replacement simply because I ran over 200 gallons through it without a hitch before I left Red Bay.
All is good now and I am planning my trip to South Dakota!

Sent from my SM-G950U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
Great story and great outcome. I wish we weren't 2,341 miles one way from Red Bay... that would take about 668 gallons of gasoline to do the round trip. It would be nice if Tiffin would provide that kind of service nationwide.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:15 AM   #47
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Great story and great outcome. I wish we weren't 2,341 miles one way from Red Bay... that would take about 668 gallons of gasoline to do the round trip. It would be nice if Tiffin would provide that kind of service nationwide.
Yes! It was only 650 miles each way for me.
What surprised me was where everyone was from that I met there. The great people next to me were from Washington state on one side and New York on the other. Met others from Tucson, florida, Houston, etc.

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Old 05-14-2022, 07:32 AM   #48
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However, Red Bay is 600 mi from here - that's 1,200 miles return.

My guess is the trip would account for approximately $690 in fuel costs, and we did consider that. Compounding the direct cost issue for the trip, much of it would be on I-30 and I-40, and involve a passage through Memphis. The negatives of such a trip just keep building!

The trip would be 1.5 days travel there, est. 3 days to get through the paint shop, and then 1.5 days on the road to get back to home base. .
Consider shipping your coach to Red Bay and have them fix not only the roof but any other warranty items you have. I too still own a business and don’t want to spend the time going to and from Red Bay. For my warranty work, I had a service out of Red Bay pick my Phaeton up and will deliver it back when it’s complete. Since your willing to spend $3,000 for just the roof repair, spend it on transportation instead. Tiffin may also pick up a portion of this cost since it’s still under warranty.
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Old 05-15-2022, 08:04 AM   #49
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You are missing the point - it's about initial quality, not how I resolved it

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Consider shipping your coach to Red Bay ... Since you're (corrected spelling) willing to spend $3,000 for just the roof repair, spend it on transportation instead. Tiffin may also pick up a portion of this cost since it’s still under warranty.
No thanks.

The use of the term willing is a bit strong; 'grudgingly' may be more appropriate, 'willing' not so much. The inference that we had stacks of cash laying around may buttresses the point, but is not accurate. Necessity often tempers our primal preferences.

The $3,000 spent was to get the roof repaired by professionals that specialize in repairing and resurfacing worn or damaged fiberglass roofs, esp for RVs. We were not looking for a fix (e.g., something that was patched and looked as such). We were looking for restoration such that the defect and reparations were indistinguishable to all but close scrutiny by the trained eye. As an admitted recipient of warranty work, you are well aware that Tiffin gets to decide what level of work is good enough. We've seen what Tiffin thought was good enough, and for us, that's not good enough. But, thanks all the same...

While a wanting control of the final outcome is a contributor, that's not the ultimate deciding factor. Sending our coach to Red Bay by a 3rd party exposes the unit to unnecessary risks, and we don't want that. Additionally, the time our unit would be out of service is unknowable.

We tend to eschew the unknown; our preference is for deterministic outcomes where possible.

I've work hard for it, so: pecuniam meam, praecepta mea.
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Old 05-15-2022, 02:54 PM   #50
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If it’s a brand new coach, the manufacturers warranty should cover defective paint /coatings. I’d take it back. These coaches are too damn expensive to accept shoddy workmanship
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Old 05-15-2022, 02:58 PM   #51
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Tiffin was sold out to thor
its a new day now.
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Old 05-15-2022, 02:58 PM   #52
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Don't know this for a fact but I suspect that Tiffin's quality may have suffered because of a lack of experienced personnel due to the covid "thing". We have a 2020 Beacon, purchased slightly used, and compared to what we were seeing in shopping for the unit, our level of quality is significantly better than the 2022 models.
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by kandcbend View Post
Yep... I wish Honda or Toyota made motorhomes... they are the cars I've had perfect luck with over many years. Chevy, Ford, Mazda not so good. RVs, not just Tiffin, remind me of the autos manufactured in USA back in the 80s... with added tech that further complicates things (this is our fourth RV). RV industry seems to be 40 years behind on quality.
You're aiming too high. Unless you get a 7 figure bus conversion, you get quality reminiscent of the 70s...in a Soviet Bloc car.

But people keep buying the garbage, so nobody has any incentive to improve it!
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:11 PM   #54
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Call Tiffin. They should have a paint shop near you that can do warranty work. 🤷🏽*♂️
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:15 PM   #55
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Take a more detailed look at the various Owner’s forums here. All RVs leave the factory with problems. It doesn’t matter if you spend $20,000 or $2,000,000 on the purchase.

There is a large gap in the reality of RV production and the expectations of the new RV buyer. RV buyers see the motorhome as a vehicle, so they expect it to be designed, built, sold, warrantied and serviced like a new car. And none of that is the reality of motorhome production and ownership.

Yes, the RV industry as a whole needs to make massive improvements in quality, but how is that going to happen when manufacturers can sell everything they build at the current level of QC that exists?

Buyers too need to smarten up - before they buy! They need to understand their responsibility in the process. They need to realize that their new RV has issues and understand that they need to be savvy enough to discover these issues in their chosen RV before the purchase. Mostly that whole “it’s like a car” mentality has got to go away. Before the purchase, not after.

Buying used has plenty of pitfalls and it is no guarantee of avoiding problems. On top of that you have the added issues of jerry-rigged changes, fixes and “improvements” made by the previous owner.

No, there is no shortcut. In today’s RV industry reality, buyers must educate themselves better and do a vastly better job at the PDI. And stop being surprised at the poor quality of their new RV/Motorhome. No matter the brand.
The fix is actually quite simple: lemon laws should apply to motorhomes. 2 months parked because nobody can be bothered to fix it? No problem, you get to buy it back (at full selling price) and reimburse the owners for all expenses!
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Old 05-15-2022, 03:17 PM   #56
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I sure think I would be in contact with Tiffen, there is not a lot of profit for dealers in warranty repairs and they tend to shine you on. I cannot see the factory not being willing to address this issue.
DON'T GIVE UP! THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF IT!
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