General Tiffin Quality (or lack thereof)

[KenJr]

Originally Posted by bneumann

IMO, comments about who/what/where/when is 'jibberish'.



It's the evolution culture we are in, driven by lack of pride in workmanship/lasting quality in general.



Good practice & skill has been going downhill since beginning of manufacture competitiveness, expediency, greed & profit, with an emphasis on haste, looks only/status, requiring neither intelligence nor professional skill.



..... pride & skill only return when we run out of garbage dumps/vehicle graveyards, in a throw away easier to buy again/replace world & also, by the way, stop creating environmental hazards .... but doubt it.

All true, I suggest the automobile industry has for the most part got it figured out. If you think back to the 60s and 70s a car was basically worn out at about 50k miles. Now a quarter of a million miles is not unheard of. I think we owe this to the Japanese bringing in higher quality units. Don’t expect to see this happening in the RV industry any time soon.

[Treetopguy]

Originally Posted by BlueDog2

It is my understanding that Thor bought Tiffin a few years ago. Anything after 2020 is manufactured by Thor not Tiffin.

This is not correct. Tiffin manufacturing is still in Red Bay, AL and is run by the Tiffin family. The only changes I was made aware of during my 3 week stay were, I couldn't stay with the coach all the time during the service work, and I couldn't take photos of the plant tours I took.
Hope this helps!

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[MevetS]

Originally Posted by Treetopguy

This is not correct. Tiffin manufacturing is still in Red Bay, AL and is run by the Tiffin family. The only changes I was made aware of during my 3 week stay were, I couldn't stay with the coach all the time during the service work, and I couldn't take photos of the plant tours I took.
Hope this helps!

Sent from my SM-G950U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app

Probably more accurately, managed by the Tiffin family. I'm not aware how involved Bob Tiffin is with day to day operations, but things are bound to change.
The changes you mentioned, as far as I recall, were maybe before the announcement of the sale to the Son of Odin. Including not being able to follow the build of a coach you ordered, on the manufacturing floor.

Things will change, THOR will not rush them, but they will creep in.

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by MevetS

Probably more accurately, managed by the Tiffin family. I'm not aware how involved Bob Tiffin is with day to day operations, but things are bound to change.
The changes you mentioned, as far as I recall, were maybe before the announcement of the sale to the Son of Odin. Including not being able to follow the build of a coach you ordered, on the manufacturing floor.

Things will change, THOR will not rush them, but they will creep in.

It's inevitable since large companies don't buy smaller companies without seeing a means to make a profit. You need to remember that's paying back above and beyond what they've already paid for the company. Some streamline all the logistics and supply chain into one. Others consolidate management and finance and others manufacturing into similar makes and models. A lot of these smaller companies like Tiffin, Newmar, etc. might bring a quality control program that might work better with the larger more cumbersome "mother" company. Some do all the above, but you will see change and I agree they won't rush into it. Car industries have streamlined their operations many years ago and it will never go back and why would you want it to? Quality and reliability have greatly improved as previously mentioned, in the car industry though I feel that the RV industry is a long way off and will take either major competition from a foreign source or better yet a foreign company buying an American RV company. We just purchased a new car a month ago and not a thing was wrong with it, not "one" thing.... how many can say that about an RV. Is the cost different, for sure, RVs cost a lot more money.... yet blame it on the pandemic, world events, whatever but in the end it boils down to what we are willing to pay for in cost and quality or lack of... Customers and Manufacturers I feel take equal blame, they build them with poor quality and we buy them. Some things we fix because we know the dealer will never fix it or it's quicker for us to. Some things the dealer might and try to fix then the inevitable trip back to Red Bay or wherever the manufacturer is located. I'll never buy a new Motorhome, been there and had the issues. Our recent purchase was 5 y/o and has issues but at least I didn't pay top dollar for it.
Sorry I'll get off my soapbox, I'm sure many feel this way and others have different opinions.. we live with our own decisions so enjoy.

[Treetopguy]

Originally Posted by dmctlc

It's inevitable since large companies don't buy smaller companies without seeing a means to make a profit. You need to remember that's paying back above and beyond what they've already paid for the company. Some streamline all the logistics and supply chain into one. Others consolidate management and finance and others manufacturing into similar makes and models. A lot of these smaller companies like Tiffin, Newmar, etc. might bring a quality control program that might work better with the larger more cumbersome "mother" company. Some do all the above, but you will see change and I agree they won't rush into it. Car industries have streamlined their operations many years ago and it will never go back and why would you want it to? Quality and reliability have greatly improved as previously mentioned, in the car industry though I feel that the RV industry is a long way off and will take either major competition from a foreign source or better yet a foreign company buying an American RV company. We just purchased a new car a month ago and not a thing was wrong with it, not "one" thing.... how many can say that about an RV. Is the cost different, for sure, RVs cost a lot more money.... yet blame it on the pandemic, world events, whatever but in the end it boils down to what we are willing to pay for in cost and quality or lack of... Customers and Manufacturers I feel take equal blame, they build them with poor quality and we buy them. Some things we fix because we know the dealer will never fix it or it's quicker for us to. Some things the dealer might and try to fix then the inevitable trip back to Red Bay or wherever the manufacturer is located. I'll never buy a new Motorhome, been there and had the issues. Our recent purchase was 5 y/o and has issues but at least I didn't pay top dollar for it.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox, I'm sure many feel this way and others have different opinions.. we live with our own decisions so enjoy.

Your first sentence has the most value of any of the others. Companies purchase for profit. Whether they are purchasing to reap the profit of a product line, or to eliminate competition for one of their product lines.
But, don't get too involved thinking that a company is going to buy a company just to change it from being profitable with a recognized brand name, to a lesser branded product.
Pepsi didn't buy Frito Lay and get rid of the Fritos!
Nestles didn't buy Gerber and change baby food to chocolate sauce.
I think it would be stupid to merge the Tiffin line into the lesser appreciated Thor line of coaches.
They will probably work on logistics and policies and leave the product alone.

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[MevetS]

Originally Posted by dmctlc

It's inevitable since large companies don't buy smaller companies without seeing a means to make a profit. You need to remember that's paying back above and beyond what they've already paid for the company. Some streamline all the logistics and supply chain into one. Others consolidate management and finance and others manufacturing into similar makes and models. A lot of these smaller companies like Tiffin, Newmar, etc. might bring a quality control program that might work better with the larger more cumbersome "mother" company. Some do all the above, but you will see change and I agree they won't rush into it. Car industries have streamlined their operations many years ago and it will never go back and why would you want it to? Quality and reliability have greatly improved as previously mentioned, in the car industry though I feel that the RV industry is a long way off and will take either major competition from a foreign source or better yet a foreign company buying an American RV company. We just purchased a new car a month ago and not a thing was wrong with it, not "one" thing.... how many can say that about an RV. Is the cost different, for sure, RVs cost a lot more money.... yet blame it on the pandemic, world events, whatever but in the end it boils down to what we are willing to pay for in cost and quality or lack of... Customers and Manufacturers I feel take equal blame, they build them with poor quality and we buy them. Some things we fix because we know the dealer will never fix it or it's quicker for us to. Some things the dealer might and try to fix then the inevitable trip back to Red Bay or wherever the manufacturer is located. I'll never buy a new Motorhome, been there and had the issues. Our recent purchase was 5 y/o and has issues but at least I didn't pay top dollar for it.
Sorry I'll get off my soapbox, I'm sure many feel this way and others have different opinions.. we live with our own decisions so enjoy.

That's the SOP interpretation of a Buy Out and how it works. Typically, it's the way the buyer wants people to interpret the situation. Without visibility of the contracts that were actually signed, there is no way to know what will really happen. I would suspect that Bob Tiffin received a lucrative contract to keep himself associated for a specific time period. I'm not even remotely suggesting that he doesn't deserve it.

It's kind of pathetically humorous that you mention Tiffin in the same sentence with Quality Control. That was the reputation we bought into back in 2019, as well. We bought a used 2017. It's impossible to Control something you don't have. They may have some level of Workmanship, but definitely not Quality Control. I can tell you that with our unit has been a non-stop series of costly disappointments.

In the main, I agree with the assessment of the situation of the RV industry.

[Treetopguy]

Originally Posted by MevetS

That's the SOP interpretation of a Buy Out and how it works. Typically, it's the way the buyer wants people to interpret the situation. Without visibility of the contracts that were actually signed, there is no way to know what will really happen. I would suspect that Bob Tiffin received a lucrative contract to keep himself associated for a specific time period. I'm not even remotely suggesting that he doesn't deserve it.

It's kind of pathetically humorous that you mention Tiffin in the same sentence with Quality Control. That was the reputation we bought into back in 2019, as well. We bought a used 2017. It's impossible to Control something you don't have. They may have some level of Workmanship, but definitely not Quality Control. I can tell you that with our unit has been a non-stop series of costly disappointments.

In the main, I agree with the assessment of the situation of the RV industry.

I understand your concerns and don't discount them, but please don't discount my experience with buy outs, since I have previously been directly involved with them in my corporate career!
I hope you get your issues corrected with your rv and have many great memories with it.
I've got mine in perfect shape and am soon to hit the road!
happy trails to all!

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[bneumann]

Maybe it's now time to close this issue .... diverging into rationals of corporate buyouts & financial options .... would think that it's best to get back to original topic citing items, closer to home, that could maybe be improved, we know there are lots of them. If one doesn't agree just trash not.

Here's a suggestion, which I forwarded to Tiffin; maybe overkill, but certainly a solid improvement to our motorhome .... may help others with similar problem worth examining ?

There are lots of decent ideas in this forum to resolve manufacturing workmanship issues & incidental upgrades .

My suggestion to Tiffin:

Suggestions, in interest of more care / improvements:

We had problems with our motorhome attachment & fabrication at under bed gas struts & bed base attachments.
Please see attached photos with descriptions ... hope they came out inserted.

Bracket under left side bed (storage space) was installed onto poor delaminated & mangled plywood pieces & came loose, leaving the gas strut dangling.
I spent about 2 hours reinforcing the corner with a sheet metal piece made specifically to add structure to the corner.
The plywood corner was secured by power pin nails, some not even into wood !
The entire thing was of course covered up (until failure) by carpet overlay.
My total out of pocket cost approximately $150; enjoy fixing things properly.

As well the installer who attached a wood grill at the front furnace vent did not seem to use common sense.
Pin nails were punched in at the weakest points of the wood grille; could have easily been located where wood surface is thickest.
I addition heat from furnace will naturally dry out the wood maybe causing premature cracking.
Tried gluing but not very successful; may end up buying a small metal grille & using small screws.

It seems a little thought with less haste can prevent many after sale failures.
As well, power nailers are expedient but should be used with a bit more thought & less haste.

In interest to maintain better quality, kindly pass on these comments as may be appropriate.

Thank you

[MevetS]

Originally Posted by Treetopguy

I understand your concerns and don't discount them, but please don't discount my experience with buy outs, since I have previously been directly involved with them in my corporate career!
I hope you get your issues corrected with your rv and have many great memories with it.
I've got mine in perfect shape and am soon to hit the road!
happy trails to all!

Sent from my SM-G950U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app

I've also been directly involved with buy outs. You are not alone !

But yes, the topic is the state of Quality at Tiffin. Unfortunately, it's not on a improvement trend. In our experience.

[neilj]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I didn't want to read all 9 pages of replies, have you thought of getting a quote from your local place then sending it to Tiffin asking them to cover the cost as the coach is still under warranty. Explain the justification of you not driving there, taking time off work because you would have to wait several weeks before even getting into the paint shop, etc, etc. Worth a shot?

[HerbieHauler]

Originally Posted by neilj

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I didn't want to read all 9 pages of replies, have you thought of getting a quote from your local place then sending it to Tiffin asking them to cover the cost as the coach is still under warranty. Explain the justification of you not driving there, taking time off work because you would have to wait several weeks before even getting into the paint shop, etc, etc. Worth a shot?

Hello,
I believe this was covered in the thread by several people including the author, but as I understand it. Tiffin will cover the cost of the repairs... He will pay upfront and Tiffin will take care of paying him back. We decided to allow the dealership to have our coach taken to Red Bay. The down side for us and some other have faced, is that the rig came back with only half of the issues repaired. Another big issues is the wear and tear that you are allowing some unknown person to put on your new rig that you paid $$$ for. (Remember they also tow their car back with your rig over what ever miles they have to travel) I ended up having to take the coach back to Red Bay myself anyway to make sure all of the repairs where made correctly. The only good thing about it is after Mr. Tiffin finished hearing my DW mouth about it. He did extend our warranty for another year. I think the author wants to take it where he knows it's going to be repaired correctly and the coach doesn't have to get wear and tear on it that he's not enjoy doing himself and he doesn't have to loss a lot of time from work.. I wish I lived closer to a place I trusted, I would probable do the same.

[greeneville1]

Our own experience with our 9th coach (2018 -40AP) and our present 10th coach (2021 45OPP) has been good. After having Monaco Dynastys, Newmar Mountain Aire and early on a few Coachman Products, we can honestly say that our 2 Tiffins have been a true pleasure to own. Yes , we have had 2 DEF sensor failures and a below normal list of items that were repaired at Red Bay. The one item that sets Tiffin apart for us over the other makers is customer service. DEF Sensor overnighted to us, Talking with Brett at Tiffin when one of our jacks was slow retracting, receiving helpful e-mails from Mr. Gary Harris within 3 or 4 hours of our initial e-mail. Try talking to the Chassis Mgr. at Newmar. Most times that we call we receive the help that we need fast. This comes from management. They treat us like they want to cure our problem or answer our questions. Our 2021 45OPP was built in June of 2020 as the folks were returning from Covid lockdown. It still came off the assembly line well built with some cosmetic issues. Those issues were fixed, I still am impressed with the powerglide chassis. I would take it any day over the new Spartan chassis. We are well-pleased with our Tiffin . Stay safe.

[SamKVA]

Originally Posted by greeneville1

Our own experience with our 9th coach (2018 -40AP) and our present 10th coach (2021 45OPP) has been good. After having Monaco Dynastys, Newmar Mountain Aire and early on a few Coachman Products, we can honestly say that our 2 Tiffins have been a true pleasure to own. Yes , we have had 2 DEF sensor failures and a below normal list of items that were repaired at Red Bay. The one item that sets Tiffin apart for us over the other makers is customer service. DEF Sensor overnighted to us, Talking with Brett at Tiffin when one of our jacks was slow retracting, receiving helpful e-mails from Mr. Gary Harris within 3 or 4 hours of our initial e-mail. Try talking to the Chassis Mgr. at Newmar. Most times that we call we receive the help that we need fast. This comes from management. They treat us like they want to cure our problem or answer our questions. Our 2021 45OPP was built in June of 2020 as the folks were returning from Covid lockdown. It still came off the assembly line well built with some cosmetic issues. Those issues were fixed, I still am impressed with the powerglide chassis. I would take it any day over the new Spartan chassis. We are well-pleased with our Tiffin . Stay safe.

Your OPP was built the same timeframe as our IH and as I've mentioned before, very few issues at delivery and no trips to Red Bay. Their customer service has been great with quick answers (even to dumb questions) and always willing to help. This is our first DP but agree the Powerglide chassis is awesome.

Sam

[MevetS]

We were just fortunate enough to sell our Tiffin Breeze. Unfortunately, for the people who bought it, the stupid thing threw a code on their way home. It was quite embarrassing, but typical. I was tempted to say, Welcome to the world of Tiffin. It's was never a dull moment.