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Old 05-09-2022, 11:40 AM   #1
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General Tiffin Quality (or lack thereof)

On a whim, I climbed the ladder and crawled long the top of our 3 mo old 32 SA, and was shocked at what I saw (see attached images).

Per Lt Kaffee (A Few Good Men): And the hits just keep on coming

We took the coach to Blue Moon RV in Dallas TX to inspect and advise. After a close look, they said the Tiffin roof is very solid, made of fiberglass, and while the finish workmanship by Tiffin was very sloppy (incomplete top coat, lots of overspray, and non-existent hard line on the paint accent) the roof was structurally intact and no risk of leaks or water damage.

This is a brand new motorhome - but I accept some responsibility for not hiring an independent RV Inspector to go over the unit with a fine tooth comb before taking delivery - lessons learned, I guess.

Blue Moon will refinish the roof for three grand or so (tape, paint, and clear coat).

With previously mentioned catalytic converter issue, slide out issue, and now this, the 2022 32 SA is becoming a very expensive pain in the xxxxx.

Seems I am getting old too darn quick and getting smart too darn late.
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Old 05-09-2022, 12:23 PM   #2
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I would drive to Tiffin and get it fixed under warranty.
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Old 05-09-2022, 12:33 PM   #3
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General Tiffin Quality (or lack thereof)

Disgusting, piss poor quality!
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:00 PM   #4
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Hi Mr Ranger.

Thanks for the advice, and good advice it would be for many...

However, Red Bay is 600 mi from here - that's 1,200 miles return.

My guess is the trip would account for approximately $690 in fuel costs, and we did consider that. Compounding the direct cost issue for the trip, much of it would be on I-30 and I-40, and involve a passage through Memphis. The negatives of such a trip just keep building!

The trip would be 1.5 days travel there, est. 3 days to get through the paint shop, and then 1.5 days on the road to get back to home base.

Based on comments in thread "Got to Red Bay today", 3 days in paint shop may have been grossly under estimated...

Notwithstanding actual out of pocket costs, the 6 day road trip to Red Bay for warranty work would likely be at the expense of a planned 6 day camping trip to Gulf Waters RV Resort on the beach later this year at Port Aransas Pass, TX.

Unlike the many more fortunate ones, we are not yet retired (one day soon, but not yet). While both are at a significant premium these days, for now at least, we have a bit more money than we have spare time. That will likely change one of these days, so priorities will likely change accordingly.

We have confidence in Blue Moon based on recent work they have completed on our 2022 Tiffin 32 SA - and based on the sketchy attention to details that we have seen from Tiffin, we are reluctant to go out of our way to get more of the later.
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:19 PM   #5
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UPDATe - on quality rant

I failed to mention explicitly why I would post our misfortunes. Mine was not meant to be a Tiffin Bashing post.

Even though the motor home is brand new, and one accepts the premium price in favor of getting a higher quality unit with better fit and finish, perfection is often an unattainable goal.

We were guilty of dropping $200,000 cash on the table, grabbing the keys, chuffed to the hilt, and heading out of town with our new motor home, ready to live the good life. We are going to get there, but there have been a few bumps in the road

The dealer, in my opinion, was guilty of overselling and under delivery. We went through the acceptance of the motor home with a representative of the selling dealership (and we know where their priorities are)

My advice to any considering purchasing a new Tiffin, and I'm not smart enough to give a lot of advice, would be to go over the unit (used and new alike) with a fine tooth comb prior to dropping the cash and grabbing the keys. Take the time to understand the plethora of mechanical aspects, how they actually work vs how they are supposed to work. It's complicated, and it will take some time. Do it on your schedule, not the salesman's.

Spending a thousand or so for an independent pre-acceptance inspection seems a waste of time and money for a new motor home - but if I were to do this again, that's exactly what I would do.
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Old 05-09-2022, 03:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rlfine View Post
I failed to mention explicitly why I would post our misfortunes. Mine was not meant to be a Tiffin Bashing post.

Even though the motor home is brand new, and one accepts the premium price in favor of getting a higher quality unit with better fit and finish, perfection is often an unattainable goal.

We were guilty of dropping $200,000 cash on the table, grabbing the keys, chuffed to the hilt, and heading out of town with our new motor home, ready to live the good life. We are going to get there, but there have been a few bumps in the road

The dealer, in my opinion, was guilty of overselling and under delivery. We went through the acceptance of the motor home with a representative of the selling dealership (and we know where their priorities are)

My advice to any considering purchasing a new Tiffin, and I'm not smart enough to give a lot of advice, would be to go over the unit (used and new alike) with a fine tooth comb prior to dropping the cash and grabbing the keys. Take the time to understand the plethora of mechanical aspects, how they actually work vs how they are supposed to work. It's complicated, and it will take some time. Do it on your schedule, not the salesman's.

Spending a thousand or so for an independent pre-acceptance inspection seems a waste of time and money for a new motor home - but if I were to do this again, that's exactly what I would do.
Good advice... and it is not just Tiffin... Ford is guilty too. We just passed one year of ownership of our 2021 Open Road 34PA which we bought new and it hasn't been a pleasant experience. I won't go into too much detail here, but just a short list of our experiences...

1.) Front grill was not glued well and broke loose. A rubber bumper was missing on the same side. Tiffin sent the glue and bumper to me and I repaired myself.

2.) Tiffin sent an incorrect model hand held remote control for our DVD player. They then sent the same incorrect model to me when I reported it. I gave up and replaced the DVD player with a Samsung unit that was hanging around the house not being used.

3.) The drivers side power window, an option that cost extra, failed. The glass was glued to a vertical extrusion that pulls it along its track. The glue didn't hold. Tiffin sent glue to me and I repaired it myself. Poor design and implementation.

4.) One of the pop rivets holding exterior trim was not installed properly and pulled out. I removed and replaced it - painted it with Tiffin supplied touch up paint.

5.) When installing my aftermarket dash cam I decided to drill a hole in the dash mounted plastic window defroster trim piece to run a cable up to the wind shield. In doing so, the drill pushed the entire plastic piece out; I discovered it to be poorly screwed on, with some of the screws entirely missing, and then they slammed a whole bunch of staples from underneath all around the perimeter and poorly sealed it with caulking. I removed all of the staples, drilled proper clearance holes in the plastic for the screws to pass through, and then screwed it back on and properly caulked it.

6. August 2021 we were stranded with failed Ford spark plug wires on a Saturday morning (of course) at South Lake Tahoe, CA; as a wildfire approached we were evacuated and had to "limp" the motorhome to a casino parking lot and then abandon it there. Several days later we were able to get the wires, but couldn't return to the motorhome until about a week later when roads reopened. I replaced all eight of the wires myself at our expense; Ford still owes us for that; including parts, motel, and gasoline costs. Ford knew of this being a problem and issued a TSB, but we were not notified of it.

7.) January 2022 we had to drive 500 miles round trip to have a Ford recall done for low lubricant in the rear differential. Local Ford dealer and many others refused to do it, or quoted many months waiting and unknown length of repair time. Local dealer took all of my information and promised to let me know what and when could be done, but failed to even call me back; meantime we got recommendation for the shop 250 miles away. Ford still owes us for motel stay and gas.

8.) April, 2022, we never reached our destination of Mesa AZ on our first substantial long trip, after driving 875 miles to Kingman AZ we got a check engine light on a Saturday morning (of course) (codes P0015 P0017). We took it to a Ford dealership there and they changed the oil, hoping that would help, but as we were about to exit the parking lot the check engine light came on again. We stayed in Kingman over the weekend and then returned to the Ford dealership. They then found that they couldn't do the work and recommended it be towed back to Las Vegas for the repairs. We returned home in our toad and are waiting for repairs to be completed. Turned out to be something to do with Variable Cam Timing - a failed sensor where they also had to remove engine front cover and valve covers. That has been repaired, but meantime our catalytic converter was stolen as some thugs cut through their fence and took a bunch of them. Now we are waiting on that to be repaired so we can return to get it. Warranty repair by Ford, but quite an expense for us, paying for the unneeded oil change, $280 for towing (Ford road service would only pay for 98 mile tow), U-Haul trailer to get belongings out of motorhome to bring home with us, motel stay, and gas to travel the extra 1,500 miles; we'll try to get some of that out of Ford as well.

9.) We have a recall for seat belts that needs to be performed. Do not know when and where that will happen.

10.) We have a recall for Inverter DCD panel that needs to be performed. Do not know when and where that will happen.

So, sorry for the long post...

As far as we know, Tiffin doesn't have easy accessible and quality repair network set up here on the west coast - we live in Southern Oregon. We are not going to Red Bay for service.

Ford service network for gas motorhomes built on the F53 chassis leaves a lot to be desired.

The advice that we did not heed, to not buy new and instead search out a well kept rig several years old, is good advice. We wanted the new V8 engine and chassis, after all it is supposed to be more powerful and comfortable. We took the gamble and lost.

Now, we have added much to enhance the rig we bought... TPMS, dash cam, toad brake dash light, dash switch and relay to disable the annoying jacks down alarm, jack pads, and custom 3D printed doo dads. So, we would like to keep the motorhome and perhaps even add some suspension enhancements, but we're a bit leery of this rig now. Thoughts?
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:35 PM   #7
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That is definitely sloppy masking in the paint shop. The white part of the roof is not painted as that is gel coat fiberglass. They mask (supposedly) the roof off when painting the radius rails. Ours had a few overspray areas but nothing like that. Unless it bothers you that someone above will see it, it doesn't hurt a thing as the roof is one piece of fiberglass. There are some that have masked off the roof and painted it white with roll on deck paint.

Here is a thread about using boat topside paint.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/que...fs-565210.html
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Old 05-09-2022, 05:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kandcbend View Post
Good advice... and it is not just Tiffin... Ford is guilty too. We just passed one year of ownership of our 2021 Open Road 34PA which we bought new and it hasn't been a pleasant experience. I won't go into too much detail here, but just a short list of our experiences...

1.) Front grill was not glued well and broke loose. A rubber bumper was missing on the same side. Tiffin sent the glue and bumper to me and I repaired myself.

2.) Tiffin sent an incorrect model hand held remote control for our DVD player. They then sent the same incorrect model to me when I reported it. I gave up and replaced the DVD player with a Samsung unit that was hanging around the house not being used.

3.) The drivers side power window, an option that cost extra, failed. The glass was glued to a vertical extrusion that pulls it along its track. The glue didn't hold. Tiffin sent glue to me and I repaired it myself. Poor design and implementation.

4.) One of the pop rivets holding exterior trim was not installed properly and pulled out. I removed and replaced it - painted it with Tiffin supplied touch up paint.

5.) When installing my aftermarket dash cam I decided to drill a hole in the dash mounted plastic window defroster trim piece to run a cable up to the wind shield. In doing so, the drill pushed the entire plastic piece out; I discovered it to be poorly screwed on, with some of the screws entirely missing, and then they slammed a whole bunch of staples from underneath all around the perimeter and poorly sealed it with caulking. I removed all of the staples, drilled proper clearance holes in the plastic for the screws to pass through, and then screwed it back on and properly caulked it.

6. August 2021 we were stranded with failed Ford spark plug wires on a Saturday morning (of course) at South Lake Tahoe, CA; as a wildfire approached we were evacuated and had to "limp" the motorhome to a casino parking lot and then abandon it there. Several days later we were able to get the wires, but couldn't return to the motorhome until about a week later when roads reopened. I replaced all eight of the wires myself at our expense; Ford still owes us for that; including parts, motel, and gasoline costs. Ford knew of this being a problem and issued a TSB, but we were not notified of it.

7.) January 2022 we had to drive 500 miles round trip to have a Ford recall done for low lubricant in the rear differential. Local Ford dealer and many others refused to do it, or quoted many months waiting and unknown length of repair time. Local dealer took all of my information and promised to let me know what and when could be done, but failed to even call me back; meantime we got recommendation for the shop 250 miles away. Ford still owes us for motel stay and gas.

8.) April, 2022, we never reached our destination of Mesa AZ on our first substantial long trip, after driving 875 miles to Kingman AZ we got a check engine light on a Saturday morning (of course) (codes P0015 P0017). We took it to a Ford dealership there and they changed the oil, hoping that would help, but as we were about to exit the parking lot the check engine light came on again. We stayed in Kingman over the weekend and then returned to the Ford dealership. They then found that they couldn't do the work and recommended it be towed back to Las Vegas for the repairs. We returned home in our toad and are waiting for repairs to be completed. Turned out to be something to do with Variable Cam Timing - a failed sensor where they also had to remove engine front cover and valve covers. That has been repaired, but meantime our catalytic converter was stolen as some thugs cut through their fence and took a bunch of them. Now we are waiting on that to be repaired so we can return to get it. Warranty repair by Ford, but quite an expense for us, paying for the unneeded oil change, $280 for towing (Ford road service would only pay for 98 mile tow), U-Haul trailer to get belongings out of motorhome to bring home with us, motel stay, and gas to travel the extra 1,500 miles; we'll try to get some of that out of Ford as well.

9.) We have a recall for seat belts that needs to be performed. Do not know when and where that will happen.

10.) We have a recall for Inverter DCD panel that needs to be performed. Do not know when and where that will happen.

So, sorry for the long post...

As far as we know, Tiffin doesn't have easy accessible and quality repair network set up here on the west coast - we live in Southern Oregon. We are not going to Red Bay for service.

Ford service network for gas motorhomes built on the F53 chassis leaves a lot to be desired.

The advice that we did not heed, to not buy new and instead search out a well kept rig several years old, is good advice. We wanted the new V8 engine and chassis, after all it is supposed to be more powerful and comfortable. We took the gamble and lost.

Now, we have added much to enhance the rig we bought... TPMS, dash cam, toad brake dash light, dash switch and relay to disable the annoying jacks down alarm, jack pads, and custom 3D printed doo dads. So, we would like to keep the motorhome and perhaps even add some suspension enhancements, but we're a bit leery of this rig now. Thoughts?


Tiffin is no better or worse than the others, their framework is probably better. Some of there systems, water heater, leveling jacks and slides are not as good quality as other manufacturers. I wouldn’t buy new again either.
Ken
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Old 05-09-2022, 07:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kandcbend View Post
Good advice... and it is not just Tiffin... Ford is guilty too. We just passed one year of ownership of our 2021 Open Road 34PA which we bought new and it hasn't been a pleasant experience. I won't go into too much detail here, but just a short list of our experiences...
So, we would like to keep the motorhome and perhaps even add some suspension enhancements, but we're a bit leery of this rig now. Thoughts?
yours is quite a grievance list - I am not so naive as to think our list will not grow in time to match.

We opted to have our roof treated with the Dicor RP-FCP-1 Fiberglass Roof Coating System - probably not needed as was earlier suggested, but just wanted it restored to what it should have been; kinda of like wearing a new $800 HSM suit with hole in the pocket, still looks nice on the outside, but it just doesn't seem right...

General feeling so far is the framework for the Tiffin is a good, solid foundation (e.g., coach box frame, walls, roof, and flooring). I wish the Tiffin motorhome was perfect from the factory, but that is a lot to ask for. As a side note, my wife's 2019 Porsche was new from the factory when we picked it up, and it has been perfect so far - nothing whatsoever to fix or repair or adjust. No doubt - I could not afford a Porsche motor home if they made one, but I'm sure it would be a quality unit..

Similarly, we are considering suspension upgrades. I'll install the Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer when we get the coach back from Blue Moon with the roof repairs. Thoughts today are that we will get Liquid Spring suspension upgrade, but that costs is now up to $26,000 (parts, labor, taxes, etc). It would be cheaper if we went to the Liquid Spring factory for installation, and that's a consideration - but it is a long journey and that part of the country is not on either of our bucket lists...
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Old 05-09-2022, 08:16 PM   #10
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yours is quite a grievance list - I am not so naive as to think our list will not grow in time to match.

We opted to have our roof treated with the Dicor RP-FCP-1 Fiberglass Roof Coating System - probably not needed as was earlier suggested, but just wanted it restored to what it should have been; kinda of like wearing a new $800 HSM suit with hole in the pocket, still looks nice on the outside, but it just doesn't seem right...

General feeling so far is the framework for the Tiffin is a good, solid foundation (e.g., coach box frame, walls, roof, and flooring). I wish the Tiffin motorhome was perfect from the factory, but that is a lot to ask for. As a side note, my wife's 2019 Porsche was new from the factory when we picked it up, and it has been perfect so far - nothing whatsoever to fix or repair or adjust. No doubt - I could not afford a Porsche motor home if they made one, but I'm sure it would be a quality unit..

Similarly, we are considering suspension upgrades. I'll install the Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer when we get the coach back from Blue Moon with the roof repairs. Thoughts today are that we will get Liquid Spring suspension upgrade, but that costs is now up to $26,000 (parts, labor, taxes, etc). It would be cheaper if we went to the Liquid Spring factory for installation, and that's a consideration - but it is a long journey and that part of the country is not on either of our bucket lists...
Yep... I wish Honda or Toyota made motorhomes... they are the cars I've had perfect luck with over many years. Chevy, Ford, Mazda not so good. RVs, not just Tiffin, remind me of the autos manufactured in USA back in the 80s... with added tech that further complicates things (this is our fourth RV). RV industry seems to be 40 years behind on quality.
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:23 AM   #11
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On a whim, I climbed the ladder and crawled long the top of our 3 mo old 32 SA, and was shocked at what I saw (see attached images).



Per Lt Kaffee (A Few Good Men): And the hits just keep on coming



We took the coach to Blue Moon RV in Dallas TX to inspect and advise. After a close look, they said the Tiffin roof is very solid, made of fiberglass, and while the finish workmanship by Tiffin was very sloppy (incomplete top coat, lots of overspray, and non-existent hard line on the paint accent) the roof was structurally intact and no risk of leaks or water damage.



This is a brand new motorhome - but I accept some responsibility for not hiring an independent RV Inspector to go over the unit with a fine tooth comb before taking delivery - lessons learned, I guess.



Blue Moon will refinish the roof for three grand or so (tape, paint, and clear coat).



With previously mentioned catalytic converter issue, slide out issue, and now this, the 2022 32 SA is becoming a very expensive pain in the xxxxx.



Seems I am getting old too darn quick and getting smart too darn late.
I would guess that Blue Moon is doing that on warrantee? If Bob Tiffin got those pictures, he would make it right! I'm at Red Bay now having a slide issue resolved. There are owners here that have very small blemishes on their paint that are completely covered by Tiffin.

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Old 05-10-2022, 09:33 AM   #12
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Wow, shocking to read.

Makes me appreciate the 20 year old RV I have. Sure stuff breaks, but mostly due to age, not poor quality.

I would think that there is a business opportunity here for someone to buy 15-20 year old RV's, do a $50,000 cosmetic makeover, and sell for a profit...
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:58 AM   #13
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To warranty or not to warranty

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I would guess that Blue Moon is doing that on warrantee? If Bob Tiffin got those pictures, he would make it right! I'm at Red Bay now having a slide issue resolved. There are owners here that have very small blemishes on their paint that are completely covered by Tiffin.

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Nope- Blue Moon is working on cash out of 'my' pocket basis (I suspect that's when they do their best work vs waiting for Tiffin authorization and payment)

Unfortunately, Texas Law restricts vehicle warranty work to licensed manufacturer's dealers only. If a shop does not have a manufacturer's vehicle service license, that shop cannot do warranty work. If the owner of the shop does not have a manufacturer's dealer license to sell new vehicles, that shop cannot get a service license. While the law is written to protect the new car dealers investment in a certified service center, the law applies to all new vehicles that have a VIN - e.g., also applies to motor homes

I had chat with Blue Moon when we first had issues with the new motorhome - they were our first choice, and they were referred to us by Tiffin. Blue Moon works on a lot of Tiffin motorhomes, but none of it is direct warranty. They refused the warranty work, citing verse and chapter of Texas State DMV regulations

We had a pretty nasty slide issue when we first purchased the brand new motor home from the dealer. Blue Moon fixed that issue in short order, but only after the dealer had the motor home for 3 weeks and could not find the problem. I have submitted to Tiffin the paid invoice with details and plenty of pictures from before, during, and after the repair. I have not hear anything from Tiffin on reimbursements - YET. We Will See.

We will submit this recent repair invoice to Tiffin when the work is completed. We hope the charges will be reimbursed, but there is not a lot of confidence. If they are reimbursed, much the better. If they are not, we will have the issue resolved, albeit after more out of 'my' pocket expenses. For now, our priorities are to get the motor home serviceable and get on the road. I am not inclined to get into screaming matches with either Tiffin or dealer service shops, and moreso not inclined to drive all the way to Red Bay every time something breaks.

Only regrets to date are that we wish we had given more thought to a well maintained used Tiffin or Newmar. Foolishly, we went with new because we wanted the V8 Ford F53 chassis and didn't want to buy someone else's problems. Live and learn as the saying goes...
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Old 05-10-2022, 11:59 AM   #14
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Nope- Blue Moon is working on cash out of 'my' pocket basis (I suspect that's when they do their best work vs waiting for Tiffin authorization and payment)



Unfortunately, Texas Law restricts vehicle warranty work to licensed manufacturer's dealers only. If a shop does not have a manufacturer's vehicle service license, that shop cannot do warranty work. If the owner of the shop does not have a manufacturer's dealer license to sell new vehicles, that shop cannot get a service license. While the law is written to protect the new car dealers investment in a certified service center, the law applies to all new vehicles that have a VIN - e.g., also applies to motor homes



I had chat with Blue Moon when we first had issues with the new motorhome - they were our first choice, and they were referred to us by Tiffin. Blue Moon works on a lot of Tiffin motorhomes, but none of it is direct warranty. They refused the warranty work, citing verse and chapter of Texas State DMV regulations



We had a pretty nasty slide issue when we first purchased the brand new motor home from the dealer. Blue Moon fixed that issue in short order, but only after the dealer had the motor home for 3 weeks and could not find the problem. I have submitted to Tiffin the paid invoice with details and plenty of pictures from before, during, and after the repair. I have not hear anything from Tiffin on reimbursements - YET. We Will See.



We will submit this recent repair invoice to Tiffin when the work is completed. We hope the charges will be reimbursed, but there is not a lot of confidence. If they are reimbursed, much the better. If they are not, we will have the issue resolved, albeit after more out of 'my' pocket expenses. For now, our priorities are to get the motor home serviceable and get on the road. I am not inclined to get into screaming matches with either Tiffin or dealer service shops, and moreso not inclined to drive all the way to Red Bay every time something breaks.



Only regrets to date are that we wish we had given more thought to a well maintained used Tiffin or Newmar. Foolishly, we went with new because we wanted the V8 Ford F53 chassis and didn't want to buy someone else's problems. Live and learn as the saying goes...
Sounds like you have it all taken care of. Just a note to all that have issues, yet don't want to notify Tiffin, or the coach manufacturer, If they are not made aware of the problem, it will not get fixed! I have taken the Tiffin factory tour twice now, and I found out that just recently Bob Tiffin/ Leigh Tiffin have Bob's son personally doing inspections on the final inspection line at the factory. This shows a dedication to improvement, which I'm not sure is the norm this day and age!

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