Power issue--Power draw on batteries while plugged into shore power on generator

[Steve Lutz]

Hi All:

2018 Phaeton IH. I seem to be having inverter and/or battery issues. I'm plugged into shore power with the AGS on I'll see the lights flicker, look at my Spyder panel and see that the system is pulling power off the batteries, Then the AGS kicks on the generator....even though the shore power shows 50 amps. See the attached picture of the Spyder panel. It's happened several times in the last few days.

Any thoughts?

[NovaKinklu]

Originally Posted by Steve Lutz

Any thoughts?

Isn't that negative 20A? That means you're charging the batteries, not drawing from them, doesn't it?

[Steve Lutz]

I don't think so. I believe it shows -20a being drawn from the batteries. Normally, when plugged in the small arrows (in the yellow line) point toward the batteries and show a positive charge.

[shepardmike]

Looks to me like Line 1 is drawing 12.9A.

[FabPhae]

I have a 22 Phaeton 40IH and had a similar problem. Bottom line I needed to top off my house batteries with distilled water. I also did a reset on my Magnum Inverter (hold red button below power switch for 10+ sec). The problem has not returned (over 5 months) so am keeping a closer eye on house battery water levels. Am going to add the auto fill gadget to make it simpler to fill. Here is the link to the thread when I had my problem. Quite a good discussion. Note that I do not have AGS enabled on my coach.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f106/cha...es-633252.html

[2cyber71]

Could be a few things.
1. You are using your Inverter while on shore power. That should not happen. You should be in pass thru mode on the inverter.
What can cause that.
One thing is your transfer switch might have a problem. Such as, loose wires from the shore power line. You will not switch over if the switch doesn’t get over 90 volts.
Check that first.
2. The inverter somehow not passing thru.
That would be bad. Most likely need a new inverter if that happens. Try resetting the inverter after checking the transfer switch.

[garykk]

How old and how good are your house batteries. As FabPhae mentioned, also try a reset on your inverter after you make sure your batteries are holding a charge.

[Persistent]

Originally Posted by Steve Lutz

Hi All:

2018 Phaeton IH. I seem to be having inverter and/or battery issues. I'm plugged into shore power with the AGS on I'll see the lights flicker, look at my Spyder panel and see that the system is pulling power off the batteries, Then the AGS kicks on the generator....even though the shore power shows 50 amps. See the attached picture of the Spyder panel. It's happened several times in the last few days.

Any thoughts?

The Spyder Panel does not show 12 volt appliance status.

1) "Lights flicker" may mean battery charging has stopped.
Faulty charger may be the cause.
Self resetting circuit breaker may have tripped.

2)"Lights flicker" may mean some 12 volt heating or cooling device has turned "ON".
Total 12 volt current may exceed charger capacity. 20 amps may be added to charger output to power high current draw.

3)"Lights flicker" may mean a high current 120 volt AC device just turned "ON". It may be heavily loading one leg from 50 amp split phase is overloaded.
Charger may throttle back to reduce load.
Inverter may turn "ON" to support heavy shore power load.

4) I can't explain why generator starts while 50 amp shore power is connected. It is unlikely the generator can sync with the shore power to supply additional power.

The transfer switch probably keeps either the shore power or generator power disconnected.

Please post make and model of inverter/charger for better advice.

Automatic Generator Start may be set high. Picture shows 12.4 volts on house battery bank while drawing 20 amps. It does not show generator running.

If AGS is set to a voltage above 12.0 volts, it may be activating too soon.

[Archer2]

Would this behavior be consistent with the Inverter losing the 120VAC feeding it (breaker from main panel to the Charger/inverter or the built in breaker on the Charger/inverter AC input)?
If the inverter doesn’t see AC in its input it will start inverting. The panel would still show shore power but since that is monitored at the transfer switch it wouldn’t sense the downstream loss of AC.

[Archer2]

After a little more thought I have a question. When the generator AutoStarts does the transfer switch operate and connect the generator and then does the screen show current on both L1 & L2 and does the Charger/inverter stop inverting and switch over to charging? If so then you may have a problem in the Auto Transfer Switch.
Some kind of failure may be occurring that is preventing L2 from actually completing the circuit and connecting to the RV but is still providing voltage to the L2 monitoring point.
The proof would be to force the generator online and see if the Firefly display begins to show normal operation on generator power.
The clue is that something must be forcing the Charger into eventually charging the batteries. Otherwise your batts would be dead by now and the LBCO setting would be shutting the inverter down.

[Steve Lutz]

Originally Posted by shepardmike

Looks to me like Line 1 is drawing 12.9A.

Correct. But as you can see, 20a is being pulled off the battery.

[Steve Lutz]

Originally Posted by Archer2

After a little more thought I have a question. When the generator AutoStarts does the transfer switch operate and connect the generator and then does the screen show current on both L1 & L2 and does the Charger/inverter stop inverting and switch over to charging? If so then you may have a problem in the Auto Transfer Switch.
Some kind of failure may be occurring that is preventing L2 from actually completing the circuit and connecting to the RV but is still providing voltage to the L2 monitoring point.
The proof would be to force the generator online and see if the Firefly display begins to show normal operation on generator power.
The clue is that something must be forcing the Charger into eventually charging the batteries. Otherwise your batts would be dead by now and the LBCO setting would be shutting the inverter down.

Hey Archer:

I'm can't really answer your questions. This has now happened about five times...three times in the last week, so I've been trying to understand it on the fly as it happens.

The first couple of times was on Sunday morning when we had high power loads....waffle iron, coffee maker, heat, tvs, etc. We were connected to shore power and i noticed the lights flicker. I looked at the Spyder panel and saw something similar to the photo posted above. Not wanting to lose power, I manually started the generators (didn't have AGS engaged). Thinking maybe it was a pedestal issue I let the gen run for 30 minutes then shut it down and everything was back.

Next time I had the AGS set and I saw lights flickering and then the generator came on. The Spyder showed 50a connection but power being supplied by the batteries. I manually shut off the Inverter on the Sypder panel, waited 30 seconds and turned it back on. The inverter then recognized the 50a so I shut off the generator....everything then normal. Very odd.

I can say when this has happened, it seems like it occurs when I've got high power demand....all three AC units running, TVs on, etc.

My flooded house batteries are five years old so they are starting to age out. However, since I'm connected to shore power, it seems like my inverter would always be recharging them....don't know why the inverter would revert to pulling off the batteries for power.

I do have a Progressive Industries surge protector on my 50a power line, so I wonder if that could be a factor? Or the breaker in the pedestal as this has all happened over months at the same RV park/location.

Thoughts?

[garykk]

The next time this happens, quickly check the pedestal for proper voltage, 120 on each leg and 240 across both legs.
Next stop would be the transfer switch when plugged in. Should be same as pedestal,120 on each leg. Measure on both sides of the switch. You could have a bad service cord or if you have a power reel, a bad reel.
I don’t know off hand which side, L1 or L2 is feeding through the inverter pass thru. But if one leg is not hot all the time, this could be your problem.
When this is happening, you can also move the power reel if you have one and if you get both legs again, you’ll know the reel is the problem.

You could also lower the preset 80% charge rate on the Spyder panel to a lower number and see if this changes things, if it does, your batteries are causing some of your problem.

[Shadow5501]

There are several pushbutton circuit breakers on the Magnum inverter itself. If you try to pass thru too much power by using too many appliances at once (e.g. microwave and coffee pot and hair dryer) the 120 volt supply to the inverter can be cut off. In that case it keeps supplying power, but from the batteries. Usually happens when folks are trying to run space heaters, but that’s not the only way to do it.

The breakers are on the side of the inverter. Not sure if it will be the top or bottom in the orientation yours is mounted.

If that doesn’t work, check the breakers in the 120 volt electrical panel. There will be a pair of 30 amp “INV OUT” breakers that could have tripped. Usually the ones on the Magnun inverter trip first, but not always.