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05-04-2022, 09:45 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: AZ.
Posts: 569
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gearbox
Got both plugs out not too much trouble. Fluid wasnt too bad. will refill tomorrow.
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05-12-2022, 07:05 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,090
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I decided to delay the fun until this winter's chassis maintenance. I found the documentation from the original owner. Ours was last serviced 6,000 miles ago, but that was 3 years ago. Not sure why time should be a factor.
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2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
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08-24-2022, 11:45 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
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Somewhere before the current 28,000 miles our 2017 Tiffin Allegro Bus radiator fan gearbox developed a lubricant leak so I have been following this and other related posts. I have spoken with the technical support people at Tiffin several times and recently had the opportunity to speak with an engineer at Curtis Machine the gearbox manufacturer. I have learned SEVERAL things.
1) Curtis DOES NOT want to receive calls from us, the end users. Their customer is the coach manufacturer and in many cases the gearbox design or specifications are proprietary to them. They are by company policy prohibited from discussing specifics with us. They would not even confirm my Tiffin P/N as being their 412M.
2) Curtis ships the gearboxes empty of lube to their customers and the coach manufacturer adds whatever lube they desire and seals the ports as desired. So if a thread lock is being added it is by the coach company.
3) Gearbox designs vary considerably. Unless they are speaking of the exact same model, revision and P/N, what you read on IRV2 or elsewhere may or may not be correct for your gearbox - follow what your coach manufacturer says! Tiffin said they get a LOT of misinformation / comments from coach owners that have "heard" or "read" incorrect information elsewhere.
4) Curtis recommends an 75W-90 AGMA-5EP synthetic compliant lube with an anti foaming agent be used. They do not specify brands. They said you should fill through the top vent / breather port only until it starts to flow out the side port. The 24 OZ that people have mentioned in IRV2, and elsewhere, is a GUIDE not an absolute quantity.
5) Curtis engineer said slight weeping is normal but expressed surprise at the number of gearboxes being replaced and the extent of discussion on various websites. Neither he nor the Tiffin rep were familiar with IRV2.
6) Curtis engineer was familiar with people adding the extended breather hose on farming and industrial equipment but was not aware it was being done on motorhome engines. He admitted it seemed to work for those that installed it.
7) The Curtis engineer felt that over pressurization and blowout would be minimized by filling only to the indicated level and using the anti foaming additive. He would not give an opinion on using 75W-140 instead of 75W-90 as they had not tested with it.
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08-24-2022, 12:35 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,090
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Great information. Thanks for sharing.
Sent from my SM-G973U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
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2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
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08-24-2022, 04:59 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 374
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NorCal Hal, thanks for taking the time to post this as you did fill in the blanks on some questions we all had.
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2016 Allegro Bus 40 AP
2015 Cadillac SRX towed car
1991 Avanti Convertible/2019 Tesla Model X
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09-03-2022, 11:38 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
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Here is an update to my August 24th post on Tiffin and Curtis Machining comments.
Yesterday, I finally got the side and bottom plugs out of our 2017 Tiffin Allegro Bus radiator fan gearbox. They are both 3/8" hex plugs. I had tried with an 8" wrench and although Tiffin service tech said they only put blue Locktite on them I couldn't budge the plugs with all my weight and the side plug is so close to the frame that I couldn't get my 1/2" drive socket and breaker bar in. I could NOT get the top plug with the breather cap out at all and gave up on it! I was prepared to install the breather extension hose that others have done but couldn't and not question whether it is needed.
I wanted to be sure I could get the side plug out so I could refill the gearbox before I removed the bottom plug and drained out the old oil. I finally got side plug out using a 24" pipe wrench on a 3/8" Allen wrench. The bottom plug came out easily with my 18" breaker bar. When the side plug came out about 8 ounces of oil shot out. As I reported on in my Aug 24th post, the Curtis engineer told me the box should only be filled until it STARTS to flow out of the side port. Obviously Tiffin does NOT follow Curtis' instructions as the box appeared to be FILLED to the top with oil. Again, Curtis said that "IF" you use the correct synthetic, non foaming oil and ONLY fill to the side plug you should not have oil leakage.
I now wonder how many of these gearbox change outs and leaks are factory created? Before replacing, or having a gear box replaced, I think everyone should pull the side plug and determine if overfilling and over pressurization is the issue!
From the rear closet engine access area I dropped a 3' transparent hose, with funnel attached to the top end down through the obstructions then crawled back under and inserted the hose in the side gearbox port and then from the closet refilled the gearbox just to the point where the oil ran out the side port.
All things considered it was not too difficult. Due to the turbo and other things in the way you can only partially see the gearbox from the top but can't reach it, so it takes a lot of over/ under movement .
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09-03-2022, 05:17 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 374
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NorCal Hal, great write up, and what you said sure makes sense as to the possible reason for the oil leaks out of those boxes. I found the same thing when i removed the side fill plug, lost about 3 or maybe 4 oz till I could get the plug back in and stop the flow. I should have let it drain I guess.
__________________
2016 Allegro Bus 40 AP
2015 Cadillac SRX towed car
1991 Avanti Convertible/2019 Tesla Model X
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09-03-2022, 05:58 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Texas
Posts: 2,090
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Thanks for the write up. I didn't realize the best way to get it filled would be via the closet access panel.
Sent from my SM-G973U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
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2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
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09-04-2022, 10:14 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRM901
Thanks for the write up. I didn't realize the best way to get it filled would be via the closet access panel.
Sent from my SM-G973U using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
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BTW the closet access panel is a bit tricky to get out. Ours is tiled so quite heavy. Ours also has a carpeted step along the back wall. It is difficult to see, but the carpet had vertical cuts at each edge of the access door's edge. I pulled the carpet up from the bottom along the front edge. Be careful of the carpet tacks - gloves would have been smart. In the engine compartment, accessible from below, barely visible and also a bit of a stretch to reach, are two clamps that hold the aft edge of the access cover down. I didn't know about them, even after talking to a Tiffin tech rep several times.
The access door is lifted at the back edge (that's why the carpet has to be lifted) then slid aft. There is a steel lip attached to the forward edge of the bottom of the door to keep it from lifting. Our access door had a factory installed strap in the center of the aft edge that was supposed to be used to lift the back. I only saw the remains of it on the bottom of the door as it has been ripped out long ago - although I have no idea who or when anyone else used the access door.
With the tile there, prying the door up is out of the question, so I used a vacuum attached shower / tub handle. That would probably work OK but one of mine's suction cup would not hold so it was a bear. After the second time I said the Heck with this and, using a ceramic bit drilled, two holes down through the door about 2" in from the back edge then installed in the bottom of the door 1/4" threaded inserts with a flange on one end and now I can easily lift them out. Threaded Eye bolts or plastic valve handles on 1/4-20 shafts can be used as handles. When not using the holes to lift the door I used binifiMux 1/4-20 x 1.5 Inch flat head Allen bolts with O-rings to plug the holes against the possibility of any engine exhaust entering the coach. The binifiMux are low profile and less of a scuff hazard should you kick them with your bare feet.
As an afterthought, I guess I could have just replaced the torn lift strap a LOT easier!
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11-14-2022, 11:29 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: DFW
Posts: 117
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source of synthetic
i wanted to check and see where folks found this synthetic fluid
Curtis recommends an 75W-90 AGMA-5EP synthetic compliant lube with an anti foaming agent be used.
Who's oil did you use and what anti foaming agent was added?
__________________
2018 Alegro Bus 45MP
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11-16-2022, 12:20 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: DFW
Posts: 117
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Gearheads required
Since Shell Spirax is difficult to find I wanted to see what alternatives were available.
Curtis Machine Company Model 412M gear box lubricant requires: 24 oz. AGM 5 EP Gear Lubricant
I found this website offering 5 EP rated fluids. Note Shell Spirax is not in that list.
https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...reme-pressure/
AGMA 5 EP, ISO VG 220 | Gear Lube (EP)
Note: AGMA- American Gear Makers Association vs. SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Gearboxes calling for an extreme pressure (EP) lubricant are heavy-duty machine components that operate at extremely high pressures and very high temperatures - these components are often referred to as heavily-loaded. Though these AGMA 5 EP, ISO VG 220, Extreme pressure gear lubes oils do contain an EP additive, they are also formulated with other additives that contribute to the lengthy lubricant life as well as the life of the machine in which employed. Considering the environments in which these machine components operate, an Extreme Pressure (EP) Gear Lube may be the only option for lubrication - however, check with OEM specifications to be certain the machine can handle the sometimes unsuitable EP additive.
They listed 5 companies with oil compatible to EP5 requirements clicking on each symbol takes you to a specification link. Unfortunately most are only available in 5 gallon or 55 gallon drums.
I hesitate to post a compatibility concern this due to the backlash of folks However some have posted that Tiffin recommends Shell Spirax 75W-90 :
Shell Spirax S6 AXRME 75W-90 is capable of extended oil drain and is approved by several OEMs for their extended drain specifications.
https://shop.sclubricants.com/shell-...6-axrme-75w-90
No where on the Shell Spirax specifications page can i find it's EP rated instead they use SAE J2360. I couldn't find any cross reference between AGMA and SAE . To bad Curtis doesn't offer a better suggestion for lubricants .
If anyone is an expert in lubricating fluids chime in it would be great to hear what alternatives meet the curtis spec.
Sending the WAF off to find Spirax 75w-90... Looks like an oil change is in my future ....
__________________
2018 Alegro Bus 45MP
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11-16-2022, 01:54 PM
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#40
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,182
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What do you think of this one? I used it to add a couple of ounces after I found the seal weeping a tiny amount. Not even sure I lost this much, as I don’t know if freightliner actually filled it right to the full mark on the dipstick.
Now I know where I filled it, so will be able to gauge if I lost any oil in a few thousand miles later.
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11-16-2022, 04:27 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: DFW
Posts: 117
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pasdad1
I'm no lubricant expert, however looking at the label it has the same rating as Spirax
__________________
2018 Alegro Bus 45MP
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11-16-2022, 04:30 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
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LIQUID MOLY Synthetic Gear Oil 75W-140 GL5 VS 1 Lit. The Finest Racing Gear Lube. $ 23 on ebay.
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