Tiffin Phaeton Front-Cap Insulation Project

[Chief6722]

I just wanted to share my completed project, as of last night of the addition of insulation into the Top-Front Cap of my Tiffin Phaeton Coach. The only insulation that was present was the ridiculous amount of wiring and cables they just terminated or tied into the TV. Prior to removing everything I used my infrared thermometer to capture the temp of the wood and also the interior space without the insulation and the inside area read 138ºF at 11am in Louisiana Heat. I also checked it with my AC Duct probe and it actually came back at 142ºF so it was exceptionally hot either way…

I wish I had figured out how to remove the front TV much sooner because it would have made removing old useless wires/cables & running the new or cleaning up the rat-nest of wires. There are 4 screws at the bottom of the TV that can be seen from the bottom of the TV that loosens the TV from the mount so you can take down the TV. It’s a good idea to have a second person there to hold the TV because it will have about 5 different cables attached along with the power wire. I had a short ladder that worked out perfect. This is a good time to add/replace any HDMI cables or a Roku or other device to allow your TV to be used for streaming unless you already have a SmartTV. After pulling the 6 wood screws and two upper main bracket screws with washers, the metal bracket will come down fast. This gives you a ton more room for access to the front cap.

I chose to use Foam Sheet insulation instead of Reflectix because the R-Value blows the Reflectix out the water and is more rigid and easier to work with. I bought mine from HomeDepot and the name is “ RMAX Pro Select R-Matte Plus-3 1-Inch” and the minimum R-Value is 6 at the 1 inch thickness. I had to measure out the cuts and ended doubling up the thickness to 2 inches so I would have an R-Value of R-13 and have the reflective properties of Reflectix but also the absorption-dispersion of the foam. I used the Loctite Power Grab Express Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive since it has near zero VOC’s and works as described. This part took the longest because all of the pieces needed to be custom cut out and stuck and a few places I used some scrap-wood pieces to keep pressure on the pieces to make sure they were stuck and only took about 15 minutes. Make sure to use circular blobs because there’s no need to run long beads of the adhesive because it takes a little away from the reflectivity. Also, this foam board has two sides with foil but I chose to put the shiny side out instead of the side with instructions.

After all the foam board was installed and I vacuumed up all the crap that collected over the years, I took out the “Encapsulated Fiberglass R-13 Insulation” and cut one long piece 7ft long and sealed up the ends with metal AC duct-tape and stuffed through the center hole and into place. I had to make two extra 24-inch pieces of the insulation and seal the ends so I could stuff them up in the left/right corner of the cap where the main piece didn’t touch. I also wanted to have easier access to the corners and not have to mess up the main run of insulation.

I stayed out there till 11pm to get everything buttoned up and cleaned and we shall see how well it does since today is supposed to be around 101ºF @89% Humidity. I’ve attached some pictures of what it looked like and outlined the bare fiberglass and pieces of foam-sheet and finally the fiberglass insulation. I also installed a small fan assembly to pull air into the cavity to help keep the back of the TV cooler and I drew the area that I installed where there is a normal vent with mesh.

I’ll head back out around the same time today since the temps are so high and see just how well the insulation is helping. In all, it’s fairly easy to do and doesn’t take long and the final benefits should be huge.

Good Luck!

[Chief6722]

I wanted to follow up with a post of the temp difference from the late night efforts.

After pulling a wooden panel from one of the flip-up doors to get a temp reading on the back of the insulation and a couple other protected areas I have an average of 101/102°F and with the panel in place I get 97°F (of course with no AC or Fans inside). Still hot but no longer HotAsHell..! LoL

I spent probably $60 total with the roll of encapsulated R-13 insulation and the 4x8ft sheet of insulation plus the two tubes of Loctite adhesive.

One other thing I would recommend is wearing some long sleeves to get the insulation in place and stuck. Not so much for the “Itch-Factor” but for the “Ouch-Factor”! My arms look like I was in a fight with a pin full of roosters from all the sharp edges. For some reason the older you get the less you feel it when it happens but Man-O-Man you feel it when you take a shower and then the next day! Haha

[BobGed]

You might want to post the year model of your Phaeton. The TV in my 2009 Phaeton was mounted the same as you describe, however my 2017 is completely different.

[brandss]

I have wanted to insulate the front cap for many years. My problem is there aren't many openings on my coach to put insulation through and I don't have the size opening behind my tv like you do.

I did come up with a better than nothing plan that might help others. I realized there is a 1 inch gap between the windshield and the trim at the bottom of the cap on the inside of the coach. I took a 4 inch wide by 1 inch piece of insulation and slid it between the trim and the windshield and went from one side to the other. It seemed to slide all the way up to the top of the cap from drivers side to passenger side.

I went and bought a sheet of dense 1 inch thick insulation that has foil on one side. I plan to cut this into 12 inch wide strips. I am going to paint the bottom half of each one black so they can't be seen from the outside. Once painted I plan to slide a piece up into the cap. The last step will be to add a piece of grey pipe insulation at the bottom, to hide the various 12 inch pieces of insulation, give it a finished, looks like it was meant to be there, look.

I figured this is better than the current insulation which is none.

[DRM901]

Thanks for the systematic approach to this common problem. I have the reflectix, installed by the prior owner in our 2014 Allegro Bus 37AP. It does ok, but not as good as I would like. I've thought about spray in foam insulation. We had it sprayed in our S&B attic. It made a HUGE difference. However, the wiring would have to be moved to a chase so you can still get to it.

I used the insulation panels last winter to keep the wet bay warm, since I didn't winterize. Did a very good job.

[dmctlc]

Nice Job Chief6722 worth the effort IMO. I did mine on my 2016 Tiffin Phaeton 44OH end of last year. Took the panels off and TV down. I actually posted it after I took my infrared Thermometer and took various temperature readings before and after. I was amazed the Tiffin hadn't at least sprayed foam insulation on it. It had wires all over the place but I not near the front cap. In the end I put a lot of fiberglass insulation in their which gave me the flexiablity to bring it even up to the back of the cabinets around wires, etc... very gingerly... didn't want to cause a problem. I don't have the pics nor the temp chart b/c we're on the road for the summer but it did make a difference. Again don't knoow why Tiffin doesn't insulate the CAP at least. I'd like to know if any manufacturer does for that matter? I'm sure the high end ones like Marathon does but does thhe Zepher or Cornerstone? Seems like a lot of potential heat gain and loss depending on the time of the year. I just installed MageShades on the windshield and the Pass/Driver side windows as well and put insulators in the 3 vents. Though I'm up back in NE for the Summer we live in Florida and do a lot of camping there so the heat is brutal.

[Chief6722]

I thought it was in my signature but don’t see it anymore.

I have a 2010 Tiffin Phaeton 43QBH…

[Chief6722]

Actually Thanks to You because I believe yours was the one that I eventually saw that made me realize the size of the hole behind the TV. I literally left the house at 11:30 the night I saw the post and had to go see for myself! LoL

I was trying the thin-cut strips and that was just not going anywhere really quick and my arms were chewed up!

I wanted to post it because yours was the only one that I could find that gave me an “Ah-Ha Moment”… Today it got to 101° and when I walked in it was a totally different coach!

[HRNep]

Originally Posted by Chief6722

Actually Thanks to You because I believe yours was the one that I eventually saw that made me realize the size of the hole behind the TV. I literally left the house at 11:30 the night I saw the post and had to go see for myself! LoL

I was trying the thin-cut strips and that was just not going anywhere really quick and my arms were chewed up!

I wanted to post it because yours was the only one that I could find that gave me an “Ah-Ha Moment”… Today it got to 101° and when I walked in it was a totally different coach!

Chief; I did the same on an o4 HR Neptune. Removed tv to go to digital(remember) tv. We would get condensate on the front dash often and I was suspicious there were little to no insulation. Taking tv out i found the answer-little insulation. Used reg house insulation and stuffed the inside of the front cap and it made a big difference. I am wandering about our 2018 33aa Red. Should I check it out or have they improved insulating the front cab?

[Chief6722]

From what I’ve seen with a few friends RED’s, they have no insulation either and deal with the same heat from not having any insulation.

I’m just guessing that this is a cost savings decision for Tiffin that goes back a long ways. It eventually has a big toll on the wiring and I’ve known two people that are on their 3rd & 4th TV and I’m sure the constant heat is a contributing part.

[BoJango]

It's not just the Fiffin. I insulated the front cap on the Winnebago I had two or three years ago.

[ledmond]

You may have dodged a bullet by avoiding reflectix there. Reflecting the heat back at windshield is not a good scenario. You can watch some youtube videos of glass being dropped out of the melting/failing weatherstripping gasket. Tiffin does not insulate behind front TV for a reason, but it certainly will cut down the heat.

LE - Tiffin 2020 37BA

[TheVardells]

Originally Posted by Chief6722

I wanted to follow up with a post of the temp difference from the late night efforts.

After pulling a wooden panel from one of the flip-up doors to get a temp reading on the back of the insulation and a couple other protected areas I have an average of 101/102°F and with the panel in place I get 97°F (of course with no AC or Fans inside). Still hot but no longer HotAsHell..! LoL

I spent probably $60 total with the roll of encapsulated R-13 insulation and the 4x8ft sheet of insulation plus the two tubes of Loctite adhesive.

One other thing I would recommend is wearing some long sleeves to get the insulation in place and stuck. Not so much for the “Itch-Factor” but for the “Ouch-Factor”! My arms look like I was in a fight with a pin full of roosters from all the sharp edges. For some reason the older you get the less you feel it when it happens but Man-O-Man you feel it when you take a shower and then the next day! Haha

Amazing share, thanks! We just got a new 34PA, one HP and one AC, if the OAT is over 77-80 the coach creeps all day. The front of very hot as, sadly, the front cap as you know has no insulation. Our tech at our local family owned Tiffin dealer gave us some insight. While we are not brave enough to take the TV off just yet, he did say if we take the 8 screwed out in each side cabinet, we can reach up there and get pretty good behind the TV too.

We have ordered a box of Havelock pure Wool and will be using that, just because I do not want to deal with fiberglass bats, etc. and the wool is about pervious to any rot, bugs, etc.

Hope to have that project done in the next week or so, even WI is hot in the summers...which are usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday!
ChiefBob

[momcat]

I was just wondering. Is there any reason other than cost, that makes Tiffin leave the insulation out from behind the forward TV. Thanks.....I couldn't think of another reason. MOMCAT