Tow Capacity 2021 Tiffin 34PA

[laroli]

Hello fellow campers. I am getting ready to purchase a 2021 Tiffin Open Road Allegro 34PA. I would like to know if anybody has 2020 or 2021 and what vehicle they are towing, and their level of satisfaction towing. Some of the specs say a 4,000# tow capacity, and some say #5,000 and I cant find two representatives from Tiffin to agree on whether it has a 4,000 capacity, or 5,000 #. Any response would be helpful. I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler unlimited which is about 4,200 #.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by laroli

Hello fellow campers. I am getting ready to purchase a 2021 Tiffin Open Road Allegro 34PA. I would like to know if anybody has 2020 or 2021 and what vehicle they are towing, and their level of satisfaction towing. Some of the specs say a 4,000# tow capacity, and some say #5,000 and I cant find two representatives from Tiffin to agree on whether it has a 4,000 capacity, or 5,000 #. Any response would be helpful. I have a 2016 Jeep Wrangler unlimited which is about 4,200 #.

Just go by your GCWR minus the approximate weight of the coach with a normal load, not necessarily its max GVWR. That or the rated capacity of the hitch, which ever is less, will give you a good working answer.

So, if your coach has an unladen weight of 30000 and the gross vehicle weight rating is 36000 and your gross combined weight rating is 40000, but you are only carrying a payload of 4000, you should be able to tow 6000 but not if your hitch is only rated at 5000.

Conversely if your hitch is rated at 5000, but you are at your GVWR of 36000, you are limited to a towing weight of 4000 to be within your 40000 GCWR.

So you have to weigh the coach with a normal load, do the math, and ignore the folks contradicting each other because they are probably comparing apples and oranges. Also weigh the toad because 200lb is a pretty nominal difference and the toad may weigh less than 4200 in towing trim (no occupants).

Chances are the difference of opinion comes from one camp citing the difference between the GCWR and the GVWR - in this example 4000, and the other camp quoting the rated capacity of the hitch, 5000 in this case.

[R.Wold]

took a quick look at the stated specs and sho’ nuff, it’s the difference between hitch capacity (5000) and GCWR-GVWR (4000).

But you may or may not be running at the GVWR and your toad may not weigh 4200. I’m sure you can make it work.

Edit: looking at the numbers below, under what I consider “normal” circumstances, your chassis should be rated at 26,500 (17,500+9,000) not 26,000. Not sure why they listed the specs that way. Maybe they chose 26000 as the GVWR to list a towing capacity of 4000 while staying within the 30000 GCWR.

[Shadow5501]

I have a 2021 34PA on order as well, and already have a 2020 Cherokee setup to tow from my previous rig. It weighs about 4200 as well.

Short answer: you will be fine, but need to take some slight care.

Longer answer: The hitch is rated to tow a maximum of 5,000lbs. That is your absolute maximum towing number. What the chassis can tow might be a lower number. You can safely/legally tow the lesser of the two.

Chassis math: The Combined Gross Weight Rating (CGWR) of the Ford F53 used on the 34PA is 30,000lbs. This is the maximum total weight of the motorhome AND the towed car. The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the motorhome is 26,000lbs. This is the maximum weight of the motorhome itself plus everything it is carrying - people, beer, dogs, beer, water, clothes, food and beer.

So you can see that if you load the motorhome to its maximum, you can only tow 4,000lbs (30,000 - 26,000). That’s where that number comes from.

If you load the motorhome to less than it’s maximum weight, you can tow more than 4,000lbs - up to 5,000lbs.

One final number. In the bedroom closet of the 34PA there is a bunch of paperwork on the wall. One of them is the OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) of the unit. The OCCC is basically how much stuff you can add to the rig before reaching that 26,000lb number. It varies a bit depending on the options on the 34PA, but about 3,250lbs is typical from the rigs I have looked at. Put another way, the empty rig weighs about 22,750lbs.

So if you want to tow 4,200lbs, you can load the 34PA up with about 3,000lbs of cargo. Cargo here includes people, pets, food water, black and grey tanks, and yes, beer. But not fuel, a full fuel tank is baked into the number. Note that full water, grey, and black tanks would weigh about 1,500lbs, so you definitely can overload if you aren’t managing this stuff.

You will of course have to calculate the actual number when you receive your 34PA based on the OCCC, or better yet get it weighed. But towing a slightly over 4,000lb Jeep isn’t an issue, you just have to be slightly underweight on the motorhome itself.

[Shadow5501]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

took a quick look at the stated specs and sho’ nuff, it’s the difference between hitch capacity (5000) and GCWR-GVWR (4000).

But you may or may not be running at the GVWR and your toad may not weigh 4200. I’m sure you can make it work.

Edit: looking at the numbers below, under what I consider “normal” circumstances, your chassis should be rated at 26,500 (17,500+9,000) not 26,000. Not sure why they listed the specs that way. Maybe they chose 26000 as the GVWR to list a towing capacity of 4000 while staying within the 30000 GCWR.

I think the 26K GVWR is driven by regulatory considerations. In many states that is the maximum vehicle weight an operator with a class C plain old drivers license can legally drive. At 26,001 GVWR many states require a non-commercial class B to drive an RV. I have a suspicion that about 90% of diesel pusher drivers aren’t correctly licensed to operate their rig.

That said, every truck I have ever seen, the GVWR of s less than the sum of the axle weight ratings.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by Shadow5501

I think the 26K GVWR is driven by regulatory considerations. In many states that is the maximum vehicle weight an operator with a class C plain old drivers license can legally drive. At 26,001 GVWR many states require a non-commercial class B to drive an RV. I have a suspicion that about 90% of diesel pusher drivers aren’t correctly licensed to operate their rig.

That said, every truck I have ever seen, the GVWR of s less than the sum of the axle weight ratings.

right - forgot about the 26k thing...I’m a long-time comercial license holder so I don’t always think about that. Also my focus is on Newmar and they always show GVWR as the sum of the axle ratings (pic is typical). They also always show approx. unladen weight which is quite helpful. But apparently it varies with other mfgrs.

Also, to the OP, I always calculate in a full tank of water but empty black and grey tanks because as they fill the fresh tank empties. You wouldn't refill the fresh tank and not empty the waste tanks, so you never have the weight of all three full. Fresh gets divided up between black and grey and then they get dumped and you refill fresh.

If you are close to your weight limit you can always travel with 1/3 of a tank of fresh, or even near empty, and empty waste tanks, and top off fresh or hook up when you get where you’re going. So it’s manageable.

[tderonne]

MANY, MANY examples of trucks and RVs where the axle ratings are higher than the total weight rating. The GVWR is the GVWR. Not the axle ratings added together.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by tderonne

MANY, MANY examples of trucks and RVs where the axle ratings are higher than the total weight rating. The GVWR is the GVWR. Not the axle ratings added together.

Probably so. I don’t run with max loads in my trucks, and didn’t in my class C rigs, so I never had to think about it. I was a bit concerned with my Bay Star, so that’s the first time I really paid attention, and as shown above, with Newmar, GVWR=combined axle ratings.

But I’m never close to either my 7000lb. CCC (NCC in Newmar speak) or my 10,000lb towing capacity in my current rig (line 1 in above pic). And I wouldn’t want to be. A 3000-4000lb payload and 4000lb toad slow me down enough as it is. And that’s less than half the allowable per the specs.

I also like a broader safety margin and often GCWR seems like a stretch to me. I usually recommend staying well under that spec. As an example my F250 has a towing capacity of 21,000 WITHOUT a WD hitch, and 27,500 on the 5th wheel. I’m not interested in towing near that. Dealers and mgrs use numbers to dazzle buyers and compete with others in the market, but if I were actually going to be towing loads that heavy, I would have bought a truck with about 25% greater rated capacities.

But in this case (veering back on topic) towing 4200lbs seems reasonable.

[laroli]

I recently posted a request for opinions on a 34PA, since I am getting ready to order,and had questions re: towability. I have to say I am impressed at how so many strangers took their time to post answers, charts, etc. I am so thankful for all the information and can now make an informed decision. Camping people (glamping) are the best.

[TimmyB]

We have a 2020 Bounder 35P which is almost the identical floor plan to the 34PA. We looked at both in detail. One thing you must keep in mind is, you have to look at three numbers, not just two. Yes, the GCWR-GVWR will tell you the max you can tow. If (IF!!!) they put a trailer hitch on there big enough to tow that much! For example, we have a GVWR of 24000 pounds and a GCWR of 30000 pounds. We should be able to haul 6000 pounds, even if we are fully loaded to 24K. Unfortunately, Fleetwood only put a 5000 pound hitch on our unit, so even though Ford says 30000 pounds combined, the most we can actually reach is 29000 pounds!

Good luck with your decision!

[Mike8253]

Just to comment on this post. Limits are set for a reason as others have noted, and you can choose how you want to adhere to them. But going just by the numbers, with the 26K chassis, if you adhere to the GVWR/GCWR ratings, if you load the MH itself up to the full 26K GVWR limit, you put yourself in the position of only having 4K of the 30K GCWR remaining with which to tow. So on the 26K chassis, if you have a toad that requires you to utilize all of the hitch's full 5K rating, you'll have to keep your chassis load to 25K max in order to stay within the 30K GCWR. For every pound you add to chassis weight over 25K, you have to remove a pound from the hitch's capable weight rating. If you weigh your toad, and your MH in its travel configuration and track your loads, it's a manageable situation. But you have to pay attention to the respective limits.

[hohenwald48]

How much can you tow? Only the CAT scale knows for sure. [emoji846]

[laroli]

Can anybody with a 2020 and 2021 Tiffin Allegro 32sa and 34Pa, indicate what kind of mpg they are getting without towing and towing. I will be getting a 2021, but also curious about 2020 models with v-10. And anybody that can comment on the new v-8 if they have one.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by laroli

Can anybody with a 2020 and 2021 Tiffin Allegro 32sa and 34Pa, indicate what kind of mpg they are getting without towing and towing. I will be getting a 2021, but also curious about 2020 models with v-10. And anybody that can comment on the new v-8 if they have one.

My Bounder, which is the same F53 chassis, V10 engine, and basic floor plan as the 34PA, gets 5.5 to 5.9 mpg towing a 4900 pound Ford Explorer for a toad. I wish I could tell you mpg for not towing but I haven't had any opportunity to do that yet.

EDIT: We travel mostly at 67 mph and it doesn't seem to matter whether we are on the flats of Michigan and Indiana or the hills and mountains of Kentucky and Tennessee, the mileage is consistent.