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Old 10-21-2018, 11:36 PM   #1
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1998 Pace Arrow house batteries

I am having an issue with my house batteries on my '98 Pace Arrow. When I have the coach plugged in to AC power and I measure at the battery terminals, I get 6.0 to 6.5 volts on each battery. If I measure across both batteries I get around 12 volts. Shouldn't I be getting around 13.5? I get 13.5 or so when I measure across the engine battery. I assume too that the house batteries are what give juice to the generator to start it. I am unable to start the gen set when running strictly on battery. I can however start it when the coach is plugged in. Any ideas on where I should start looking?
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:34 AM   #2
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It sounds like the converter has been connected to the engine/chassis battery bank rather than house batteries.
Are both battery systems located close enough to each other that a cable could be connected to wrong battery bank? If not, it could be at the disconnect relays.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:10 PM   #3
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Are both battery systems located close enough to each other that a cable could be connected to wrong battery bank?
All batteries are under the hood. The engine battery as you face the front of the mnotorhome is on the right (drivers) side, and the house batteries are just slightly left of center. and sit about 1 1/2 to 2 feet lower than the engine battery. You mention about the disconnect relays. Is there any kind of diagram for an '89 Pace Arrow that would show me where those are located? That might also explain why when I try to check the main batteries on my monitor panel, it shows them dead.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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The disconnect relays are with the BCC (Battery Control Center), which is probably in a front bay but could be most anywhere. It usually isn't far form the house batteries, though. A 98 Pace probably has an RVP (RV Products) BCC with fuses, a circuit breaker or two, and the two big relays (Disconnect and Aux start).
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:42 PM   #5
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The disconnect relays are with the BCC (Battery Control Center), which is probably in a front bay but could be most anywhere. It usually isn't far form the house batteries, though. A 98 Pace probably has an RVP (RV Products) BCC with fuses, a circuit breaker or two, and the two big relays (Disconnect and Aux start).
Well, I found the BCC. It was under the hood just above the engine battery.


Now I need to figure out where to start testing to see where the charge voltage is lost. Also, does anyone know if the battery charger that runs when AC is connected is housed in the BCC? If not, where would I find that so I can trace the wires if I can't find anything in the BCC?


It's always nice too when you open the cover and see this. Just asking for trouble. Not sure which owner did this, but it wasn't me. I need to find out what that fuse is for too. Obviously I will replace it.


I find it a bit odd too that the 5 amp fuse (top of the board, center of the pic) is in place for the slide out, but there is nothing connected to the power blade on the board. My coach does not have slide outs.

When I push the battery disconnect switches for the main and aux batteries I can hear the relays click. It is a loud noticeable click. Which makes sense since they use starter relays for these. The one visible in the picture looks to be an old ford style relay, which is the same style that I replaced my generator relay with.

I appreciate all the help.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:29 PM   #6
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After some more looking, I am seeing a number of fuses that are wrong. The one at the top for the power seat is marked for 15A MAX. It doesn't appear to be needed as it looks like it just powers the P9 terminal, but still, why would someone even populate that. The 3A LP Detect fuse is not populated and that at least looks like it powers something on that harness.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:39 PM   #7
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Well, I found the BCC. It was under the hood just above the engine battery.


Now I need to figure out where to start testing to see where the charge voltage is lost. Also, does anyone know if the battery charger that runs when AC is connected is housed in the BCC? If not, where would I find that so I can trace the wires if I can't find anything in the BCC?


It's always nice too when you open the cover and see this. Just asking for trouble. Not sure which owner did this, but it wasn't me. I need to find out what that fuse is for too. Obviously I will replace it.


I find it a bit odd too that the 5 amp fuse (top of the board, center of the pic) is in place for the slide out, but there is nothing connected to the power blade on the board. My coach does not have slide outs.

When I push the battery disconnect switches for the main and aux batteries I can hear the relays click. It is a loud noticeable click. Which makes sense since they use starter relays for these. The one visible in the picture looks to be an old ford style relay, which is the same style that I replaced my generator relay with.

I appreciate all the help.
Now that you found the relays that are clicking, you need to see if they pass current. When they fail, its often the internal contacts, not the pull in coil.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:33 PM   #8
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Now that you found the relays that are clicking, you need to see if they pass current. When they fail, its often the internal contacts, not the pull in coil.
Well, one issue is that I can only see one of the relays, so I may need to disconnect the batteries and the AC power and remove the board to get at the other one. I know there has to be two there. To test them with the batteries disconnected, I can disconnect the small wires, energize the coil (small screw terminals) with some test leads to the engine battery and check for continuity across the large screw terminals.

One other thing though, the charging of the house batteries I would think should happen regardless of the clicking of the relays when the coach is plugged in to AC power. I can see the clicking of the relays having an affect on the generator not starting, but not so much on the charging.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:07 PM   #9
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Did you look on the inside of the front cover. There is a wiring print there. It will tell you what each of the 3 or 4 relays are for.

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Old 10-24-2018, 04:46 PM   #10
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So I did a little bit of testing before I tear apart the BCC. I am guessing that there are going to be 3 of the large relays in the BCC box. Here is what I found. I had the AC cord attached and both battery disconnects turned off. I then checked the voltage on both terminals of the relay that you can see in the picture and read 13.6 volts on both terminals. I then checked the two small coil terminals and got 0 on the top one, which I took to be the ground or negative. I got 13.6 volts on the bottom one. So that relay was energized. I then disconnected and re-connected the AC cord near the rear of the coach and I could hear a noticeable click in the front, so that tells me that that relay kicks on when the AC cord is attached. When I disconnected the AC cord and measured again, I got 12.9 volts on the top terminal which is what I also read on the engine battery, and on the bottom terminal I read 17 volts. The 17 volts I am assuming has to do with the electronics and probably some capacitors. I then checked the coil voltage at the lower coil terminal of the relay and I got 0 volts. That pretty much tells me that there are going to be 2 more relays under the BCC board that will be for the battery disconnects.

So, when I finally get around to disconnecting the batteries and pulling the BCC board out, I am assuming that it would be wise for me to drain off the 17 volts that I was reading on that lower relay terminal with a power resistor or something similar before removing the board, correct?
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:35 PM   #11
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Did you look on the inside of the front cover. There is a wiring print there. It will tell you what each of the 3 or 4 relays are for.

Richard
Thank you, I didn't notice that that was even there. So here is the full diagram.


This would be the orientation as I look at the front of the BCC and what is seen in my other picture of the BCC.


I was then correct in my assessment that the one visible relay should kick in when plugged in to AC power. Judging from this diagram and what I am finding with my tests, there has to be a bad connection between the lower terminal on the automatic charging and aux start relay and the coach battery. It would also tell me that the two battery disconnect relays are working correctly. In my previous post outlining the tests I did today, I did not read any voltage on the lower terminal of the aux start relay when The AC power was disconnected, and I should have read the voltage of the coach batteries at that terminal. In my post from the other day I also noted that I was not able to start the generator unless the AC was connected. This would make sense since I am not reading coach battery voltage at the lower terminal of the aux relay and when plugged in that would route the chassis battery to the coach battery disconnect relay which when energized would then route that to the generator allowing me to start it.

Looks like I know what I am checking next....
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:21 PM   #12
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So I believe I have solved my problem. I did some digging around the battery cables and found this tucked behind the small radiator.

The end of it was pretty green with corrosion so I cleaned it up with a wire brush. What surprises me is that that cable, when plugged in to AC power, would have been energized with the chassis battery voltage, as well as the battery charge voltage. The surprising part of that is that where it was laying, it could have easily shorted out to the chassis frame and done a bit of damage to the chassis battery and potentially the main battery charger.

That cable should have been connected to the battery terminal shown in the picture below. My coach/house batteries are two 6 volt deep cycle batteries. You can see one in the picture and the other is the green thing just to the left of the leveling jack. According to documentation that I found in the manuals for the motorhome, those batteries were replaced in December of 2017. I have no way of knowing if the people that replaced those batteries had missed connecting that cable or if it was something that the previous owners had messed with and done. regardless, I believe I have solved the problem and think I am safer now.


Thanks to all that had posted and helped out with this. I really appreciate it.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:44 AM   #13
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Thank you for the update they are important for those who may do a search of the subject in the future.
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