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Nemisus · 03-15-2023, 08:23 AM

Good morning iRV2,

back at it with more progress on the Excursion rebuild. I've been thinking about the fault code that pops up on the ESP read out when I attempt to use a 30 amp power source that is external.

However, when I use the on board Gen-set the 30 amp transfer works as intended.

Fault is nEu, which indicates an open neutral at the source.

I've checked my shore cord as well as the source power for shore and all checks out. 50 amp works without an issue.

This has me thinking I have an issue with my ATS. Before replacing it I was curious if there are any test that can be conducted on the ATS to prove my suspicousion. I've already checked voltage on all the input and output lines and they all read 118 volts. My guess is there is an issue with the mechanism that makes the change.

My apologies if this seems redudant as it was brought up in an "inverter" post I started but I wanted to keep the ATS seperate from that conversation since the new inverter is working as intented.

The ATS I am looking at replacing it with is the Surge Gaurd TRC 40350CV1. I suspect its an upgrade from the OEM TRC unit I currently have installed. But for the cost I want to be certain its the cause of my fault. I also would like to know if anyone is aware if the current ESP readout will work with the 40350.

Appreciate all the help

Cheers

Nem

Gary RVRoamer · 03-15-2023, 11:44 AM

The existing TRC ATS is both the ATS and the powerline monitor, i.e. the source of the Open Neutral diagnostic. The 40350 will be the same. It's possible the unit is faulty or even giving a false diagnostic, but I don't consider it likely. I'm pretty sure the TRC power monitor tests the incoming power before it reaches the switch component.

You say you did a voltage test, but didn't describe how. Did you measure L1 & L2 to neutral or to ground? You should do both. Measurements to ground will remain fine even if the neutral is disconnected. And you can and often will get proper voltage readings to the neutral if there is a weak connection (like one or two strands of wire).

If you have a solid understanding of 240v split phase power and the function of the neutral, you could bypass the ATS power monitor and make measurements at the load center with differing amp loads on L1 & L2. That will show changes in voltage if the neutral is weak or totally open. But I don't recommend that unless you have experience.

Persistent · 03-15-2023, 12:00 PM

The on-board generator does not use the shore power cord.
The 50 amp split phase uses the shore power cord.
The 30 amp shore power uses the shore power cord plus a 30 to 50 adapter.

The 30 to 50 adapter is only used for 30 amp shore use. The socket or plug is probably not making good contact with mating socket or plug.

Nemisus · 03-15-2023, 12:02 PM

Hey Gary,

Thanks for the informative info.

When I measured I used a multi-meter and just did L1/L2 to ground. Didn't consider the Neutral. Just for clarification how would I measure it using the Neutral? I assume its the same but with the black lead on the Neutral rather than the ground. I am still learning the full uses of a multi-meter.

Also, should I measure with the 50 amp shore attached or th 30 amp shore attached. Considering I don't get the Fault on 50 amp I can assume the 30 amp for the test.

I am a novice electrician by experience only. I can confidently wire most house hold items and have several dedicated circuits both 110 and 220. I recently did a 100 amp sub panel in my basement which passed inspection.

I have the basic understanding but not to the extent I am comfortable with your last suggestion.

I'll get the new test results when I get home using the neutral.

Thanks in advance,

Nemisus · 03-15-2023, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persistent

The on-board generator does not use the shore power cord.
The 50 amp split phase uses the shore power cord.
The 30 amp shore power uses the shore power cord plus a 30 to 50 adapter.

The 30 to 50 adapter is only used for 30 amp shore use. The socket or plug is probably not making good contact with mating socket or plug.

Hey there Persistent,

Just for clarity the 30 amp socket on my shore power RV box works perfect for my 30 amp Rexhall so I am not confident its the socket at the shore source.

However since it does this using the 50 amp shore cord, using a dog-bone attached to a 30 amp generator it could still be the shore cord.

I did a continuity test on the shore cord to where it ties into the Motorhome home and it checks out. But I haven't done anything past that.

I supposed it could be the shore cord and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to resolve if it were.

After my tests I'll look more into the shore cord.

Thanks,

Nemisus · 03-15-2023, 02:36 PM

Okay here goes.

I came home a bit early and had some time to look at the ATS.

I connected the Motorhome to the 30 am dog-bone and switched on the shore power.

I've labeled the ATS image the best I can. For the input you can see 118 volts on L2, zero volts on the neutral, and zero volts on L1.

What you don't see is voltage on the output side. Not sure if that's because the fault isn't allowing it, or the issue is inside the switch.

BTW, when I do this same test with 50 amp, L1/L2 are both 118 volts as well as the output. Neutral shows zero.

I ordered a new shore cord just for good measure but I am not really convinced its the cause. Leaning towards the ATS having a switching issue.

BTW,

There is an LED just below where it says 120 in green that is lit red next to writing that says "wire fault". Just above that is "voltage fault" but that is not lit up.

twinboat · 03-15-2023, 05:59 PM

The ATS gets it's switching power from only one leg, very likely the black leg in your case.

That tells me your dogbone adaptor is bad, it's supposed to send 120 volts to both black and red legs.

edge68474 · 03-15-2023, 06:23 PM

More electrical. I'm watching so I can learn. Thank you.

Nemisus · 03-15-2023, 07:10 PM

HeyTwin boat,

Thanks for the feedback. I've gone through two dog legs assuming they were bad so I am not so sure at this point. Wont rule it out though.

Now a new development took place this afternoon. I have been trying to figure out why I have no power at the thermostat. I was able to confirm there was power out going from the fuse but at the thermo itself it was always nothing.

So I traced the wired number to a harness up front and in the Generator bay. Followed it to a giant plug and confirmed power was going to it, but not coming out of it.

I'll let the images speak for themselves but its safe to say this plug is causing some of my issues. In part its responsible for the Intellitec Smart EMS panel. When I unplugged this harness I got all kinds of faults codes on the ESP panel in the back... especially when trying to connect with the on board Gen.

I plan to replace the plug.

I'll report back when I have a solid connection at that harness plug.

the red circles indicate where the connector is completely gone. 2 of these provide power to the thermostat and Smart EMS Panel.

Persistent · 03-16-2023, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemisus

Okay here goes.

I came home a bit early and had some time to look at the ATS.

I connected the Motorhome to the 30 am dog-bone and switched on the shore power.

I've labeled the ATS image the best I can. For the input you can see 118 volts on L2, zero volts on the neutral, and zero volts on L1.

What you don't see is voltage on the output side. Not sure if that's because the fault isn't allowing it, or the issue is inside the switch.

BTW, when I do this same test with 50 amp, L1/L2 are both 118 volts as well as the output. Neutral shows zero.

I ordered a new shore cord just for good measure but I am not really convinced its the cause. Leaning towards the ATS having a switching issue.

BTW,

There is an LED just below where it says 120 in green that is lit red next to writing that says "wire fault". Just above that is "voltage fault" but that is not lit up.

There are different 30 amp to 50 amp adapters. Maybe you are buying one that does not jumper the red and black wire. RV dogbone adapters should jumper the red and black.

Check the dogbone by disconnecting it and measuring ohms between red and black output sockets. Ohms should be very low. Less than 1 ohm. Maybe 0 ohms.

To test if the dogbone is the cause, measure the voltage on the input of the ATS from Red wire to Black wire. If 240 volts, abort. Don't continue. If 125 or less, continue.

Jumper Red wire terminal to Black wire terminal. Does the fault go away?

Nemisus · 03-16-2023, 11:43 AM

Hey there Persistent,

The two I've used were campco bought from Ace. I ordered an off brand from amazon that had great reviews so we'll see if there is a change there. I also ordered a new shore cord that should be here today. Probably didn't need it.

I considered jumping the L2 to L1 to see but unti I get the EMS readout to work I am at a stand still as it not working and causes all kinds of faults on the ESP panel in the back. I should have that resolved this afternoon.

I will also test the dog-bone to see if power is being jumped on the 50 amp side. Not sure why I didn't test for that weeks ago.

Nemisus · 03-16-2023, 08:01 PM

Okay learned a couple things today.

Swapped out the OEM 50 amp shore cord for a new one and no change was made. Was worth a shot seeing how the cord was only 100$ and the ATS is 1000 if I get the 40350.

I also learned that the campco does indeed transfer energy to both hot legs of the 50 amp side. That leaves the issues between where the shore cord is wired and the connection at the ATS.

Just can't wrap my head around why 50 amp energizes both L1 and L2 on the input side of the ATS, but when 30 amp is used with a dog-bone that is confirmed energizing both hot legs of the 50 amp plug, I only get L2 with power and an open neutral fault.

Gotta be the switch.

This weekend I may jump jump L2 to L1 and see if the fault goes away.

shootist · 03-16-2023, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemisus

Okay learned a couple things today.

Swapped out the OEM 50 amp shore cord for a new one and no change was made. Was worth a shot seeing how the cord was only 100$ and the ATS is 1000 if I get the 40350.

I also learned that the campco does indeed transfer energy to both hot legs of the 50 amp side. That leaves the issues between where the shore cord is wired and the connection at the ATS.

Just can't wrap my head around why 50 amp energizes both L1 and L2 on the input side of the ATS, but when 30 amp is used with a dog-bone that is confirmed energizing both hot legs of the 50 amp plug, I only get L2 with power and an open neutral fault.

Gotta be the switch.

This weekend I may jump jump L2 to L1 and see if the fault goes away.

Get ready for the Fourth of July if you start jumping things. L1 and L2 are both 120v , on 240 they are kept separate throughout your motorhome. They return on the neutral. When you use one leg off a 240 the dog bone splits it into 120 and 120 off the same leg or line . No 240 is even available.
If you connect them together nothing happens because they are essentially the same wire. If you have a bad leg of line one or two chase it down. And there are ats units that would sense bad current from a single pole feeding both sides. Do a little research on your unit.

twinboat · 03-17-2023, 03:41 AM

You are testing the shore cord wires before the switch, how can it be the switch ?

You say it works on 50 Amp but not on 30 amp with a good adaptor.
While using 50 amps, do you read 240 volts checking between red and black ? This is important .
120 on black and 120 on red isn't the whole story. It should be 240 between both.

At the switch, swap the red and black, don't jump them, and see what happens with the indicator lights.

Follow the shore power wires from the switch back to the cord, open and check every connection.