American Coach: Basement Rust Repair

[mackwrench]

Looks better then when Fleetwood did it!

[Drewfab]

Very nice!! I ended up replacing a lot of the pex fittings, they broke when I put it back together, also have a couple of valves I need to replace now.

I replaced that paper towel holder with an aluminum paper towel holder that also holds a box of latex gloves, think I bought it from summit racing.

Did you replace the propane/fresh/black/grey monitor panel? Both mine are bad and I have not been able to find the mfg or a source for new ones.

Too late if you already printed the labels but I think you can buy a lot of them from rev group.

[Coal Hearted]

Awesome job. Looks good

[Meames1]

Just got back from our "maiden voyage". Everything worked as designed. Had a great weekend with our boys, and their phones were put away for the most part ! Can't wait to start stretching out further from home base and for longer duration.
Oh, and the huge Timber Rattlesnake we saw on our hike made life "interesting"....

[Dav L]

Your rig looks great. Congrats on the excellent restoration project(s).

[Meames1]

Thanks Dave L.
I tore my left rotator cuff and bicep on May 1st. Waiting for surgery date. Really wanting to buff and wax, and coat roof. Don't know if I'm able for a while.

[Maik]

Meames1, Well I am in your debt for posting this great repair. I have found out what it is like to have your basement break away before you get a chance to do the repair. I was fortunate to catch it before my propane tank was lost to the road. I will be starting my repair once I have finished my work camping 12 hours away from home. I will be doing a patch job to get her home with everything heavy removed from the basement. Thank good for ratchet straps, as they were able to get me the last 20 minutes to the camp site.

[Meames1]

Originally Posted by Maik

Meames1, Well I am in your debt for posting this great repair. I have found out what it is like to have your basement break away before you get a chance to do the repair. I was fortunate to catch it before my propane tank was lost to the road. I will be starting my repair once I have finished my work camping 12 hours away from home. I will be doing a patch job to get her home with everything heavy removed from the basement. Thank good for ratchet straps, as they were able to get me the last 20 minutes to the camp site.

WOW ! Mine was Very close to doing the same thing. Good luck with the repairs. PM me if you have any specific questions.

[Maik]

Meames1, Thanks I will probably will be asking questions, even though your postings showed so much. It is because of your lengthy posts and pictures that I have the confidence to take on such a project. I have already lined up a welder/ fabricator from my company that will do it on the side. Hard part will be doing it in my driveway, but I have done worse.

[Meames1]

Originally Posted by Maik

Hard part will be doing it in my driveway, but I have done worse.

I did mine in my driveway through the winter in Upstate NY, lol. One step at a time, sometimes it gets a little overwhelming, but you'll get there.

[Waiter21]

I just looked at mine. its no where near as complicated as yours.

I have one section on the passenger side thats about 9 ft long. It runs between the steps and the rear wheel. The rear portion is completely rusted out. The rear wheel trim piece mounts to it. Last winter I noticed the trim piece flopping around so I did a temporary fix to hold it together (drilled a small hole and used a couple tie wraps)

Mine is a 1 3/4 x 1 inch steel tube thats about 9 ft long welded to the vertical sheet metal brackets. I figure I can remove the bottom roll trim and one storage bin, then cut the old piece out and weld a new tube in place.

I'll post a couple photos when I get it done. Thanks for the inspiration to tackle this job.

[sailchessi]

Originally Posted by Meames1

I did mine in my driveway through the winter in Upstate NY, lol. One step at a time, sometimes it gets a little overwhelming, but you'll get there.

Hi Meames1, like so many others, this comprehensive thread is a labor of love as is your basement frames rebuild. We all owe you a debt of gratitude. I'm going to re-read the entire thing as I may have missed things and make my decisions. I have a friend in California with a plane hanger where we could do it, but I'm in Maryland, or in Texas, and still have a full time job so can't just go the "other 1500 miles" from Texas there and stay to do this.

Before I delve into what follows here, since I need EXACTLY what you have done, if I bring you my coach this fall and leave it with you, will you do mine like you did yours? I would love it if you would PM me a price and then a schedule of when you would like to start. After Labor Day? (LOL?, no, not really kidding).
I do have several questions:
1) I'm super high mechanical aptitude, a "car guy" have done engine, trans swaps, drilled and wired houses for AV (my actual business). However, I've never welded, soldier yes, but no actual welding. I understand it, have helped a welder fix a magnesium bike frame of mine (I found the AK-61 rod to do it), etc. I think it would be worth it to buy the gear, perhaps used and new, and the various clamps, riveter and stuff I'd need to do this work. Is this a viable strategy, to learn to weld just doing this project as you have laid it all out? Is this "high-tech" welding or if done "pretty good" is it acceptable for the strength needed? I do know welders, have a great one (the bike guy, ex military) but he has zero space to do this and of course I'd have to pay him for a zillion hours.
2) I'm curious about if it would be worth it to replace all that steel with aluminum railings? More difficult welding and higher cost but I'd think you could save a substantial amount of weight? OK, doesn't matter with 1000 ftlbs of torque and shoving a brick through the air, right?

At this point I'm very worried. My '03 lived in Erie, PA and the coach is in excellent condition overall after a massive clean up from the original owner just using it as a long haul tailgate vehicle for almost all NASCAR races every year since new (and from 1963 to 2003 with a Dodge gasser and four engines before this one). I've already sunk a substantial amount in this rig. Had a blown turbo, and replaced the manifolds, turbo and brake for $8,840 so I'm now deeper into it. On our first trip (3400 miles roundtrip) the metal sheeting began peeling off the bottom and scraping down the highway. Upon investigation the rotted rails were exposed, and in some places now breaking and crumbling away letting the "panels" fall down. Then I found where the original owner had someone replace some rails and create a new bottom for the grey/black/water tank area with a sheet of plywood so I'm guessing that already collapsed.

I was actually shopping for an old, short DP just to tow my track car to race tracks about 4K miles a year, and outfit it for boondocking there (generator, big solar). My years of searching pinged on this nice unit and the guy was very upfront about big miles, how it was used, said "almost everything worked" except warned me about it "needing turbo work." I bought it sight-unseen and am totally thrilled with it EXCEPT for this problem. I very much need to do exactly what you did and then I've got a perfect rig for a long time. Sure, have to replace the AC units and dash AC and fridge guts, and front air bags and sort out HWH jacks that don't work right (apparently never have) but drives great (just did 1,700 miles in 5 days), slides work, it's a Newmar so great cabinets, carpet is great, kitchen great, bathroom and plumbing all great. Yeah, he failed to mention that it was completely rotted under the basement, but the price was right, and still is pretty right depending on what this repair costs me (if I decide to continue).

What do you think?
• If I had a 2 car garage to work in, could I build it as "sub-units?" I'm guessing only to a point right?
• Can it be measured and built without cutting the bottom off the coach or is this an "all in one deal" where you sawzall off the cancer bottom, build the new from what you have and re-attach?
• Does the new bottom get bolted to the coach or welded to it? It was originally bolted, correct?
• Can you recommend sources or ways to find the proper sources for someone NOT "connected" like you to acquire the steel tubes, insulation, ss sheeting, rivets, and all the other stuff you used?
• How many hours do you think it would take a rookie to follow your beautiful outline, do the exact same thing and “save” a very nice rig otherwise and double it’s lifespan?

Finally, I'm really curious as to how everything finally "fit?" My basement doors swing up, meet a wire "ring" to latch to on this bottom frame. Have to integrate with the "fixed" panels like water heater, etc. Seems like it would really be tough to get everything aligned.

You did an amazing thing for all of us, we are not worthy but I want to try (unless you'll do mine as your second one in your new business).

Thank you again,
Stuart

[Meames1]

Originally Posted by sailchessi

Hi Meames1, like so many others, this comprehensive thread is a labor of love as is your basement frames rebuild. We all owe you a debt of gratitude. I'm going to re-read the entire thing as I may have missed things and make my decisions. I have a friend in California with a plane hanger where we could do it, but I'm in Maryland, or in Texas, and still have a full time job so can't just go the "other 1500 miles" from Texas there and stay to do this.

Before I delve into what follows here, since I need EXACTLY what you have done, if I bring you my coach this fall and leave it with you, will you do mine like you did yours? I would love it if you would PM me a price and then a schedule of when you would like to start. After Labor Day? (LOL?, no, not really kidding).
I do have several questions: Hello, I'll try and answer the best I can.
1) I'm super high mechanical aptitude, a "car guy" have done engine, trans swaps, drilled and wired houses for AV (my actual business). However, I've never welded, soldier yes, but no actual welding. I understand it, have helped a welder fix a magnesium bike frame of mine (I found the AK-61 rod to do it), etc. I think it would be worth it to buy the gear, perhaps used and new, and the various clamps, riveter and stuff I'd need to do this work. Is this a viable strategy, to learn to weld just doing this project as you have laid it all out? Is this "high-tech" welding or if done "pretty good" is it acceptable for the strength needed? I do know welders, have a great one (the bike guy, ex military) but he has zero space to do this and of course I'd have to pay him for a zillion hours. Mig Welding is not that hard to learn. It's forgiving to somewhat "dirty" tubing and at last resort grinds easily if you need to clean it up or start over. Buy a machine and practice a while and you'll more than pay for the equipment by the time you're done. I have some expensive welders (Mig and Tig), but I did all my work in this thread with a $600 Lincoln 110volt Mig. In my opinion "only", do not bother with flux cored Mig wedling, get the argon-steelmix tank and weld with the shielding gas.
2) I'm curious about if it would be worth it to replace all that steel with aluminum railings? More difficult welding and higher cost but I'd think you could save a substantial amount of weight? OK, doesn't matter with 1000 ftlbs of torque and shoving a brick through the air, right? There is a member here, "Drewfab" who did just that. His work is awesome, but he had the facilities to do so. Using aluminum would have been great, but for me to Tig all that (I've never been able to use an aluminum mig gun consistently) would have taken forever. I have a bunch of pictures he sent me if you go that way. I would just ask his permission to hare them.

At this point I'm very worried. My '03 lived in Erie, PA and the coach is in excellent condition overall after a massive clean up from the original owner just using it as a long haul tailgate vehicle for almost all NASCAR races every year since new (and from 1963 to 2003 with a Dodge gasser and four engines before this one). I've already sunk a substantial amount in this rig. Had a blown turbo, and replaced the manifolds, turbo and brake for $8,840 so I'm now deeper into it. On our first trip (3400 miles roundtrip) the metal sheeting began peeling off the bottom and scraping down the highway. Upon investigation the rotted rails were exposed, and in some places now breaking and crumbling away letting the "panels" fall down. Then I found where the original owner had someone replace some rails and create a new bottom for the grey/black/water tank area with a sheet of plywood so I'm guessing that already collapsed.

I was actually shopping for an old, short DP just to tow my track car to race tracks about 4K miles a year, and outfit it for boondocking there (generator, big solar). My years of searching pinged on this nice unit and the guy was very upfront about big miles, how it was used, said "almost everything worked" except warned me about it "needing turbo work." I bought it sight-unseen and am totally thrilled with it EXCEPT for this problem. I very much need to do exactly what you did and then I've got a perfect rig for a long time. Sure, have to replace the AC units and dash AC and fridge guts, and front air bags and sort out HWH jacks that don't work right (apparently never have) but drives great (just did 1,700 miles in 5 days), slides work, it's a Newmar so great cabinets, carpet is great, kitchen great, bathroom and plumbing all great. Yeah, he failed to mention that it was completely rotted under the basement, but the price was right, and still is pretty right depending on what this repair costs me (if I decide to continue).

What do you think?
• If I had a 2 car garage to work in, could I build it as "sub-units?" I'm guessing only to a point right? That's exactly what I did. All done in my 24'x28' garage and installed outside.
• Can it be measured and built without cutting the bottom off the coach or is this an "all in one deal" where you sawzall off the cancer bottom, build the new from what you have and re-attach? I guess this depends on how much is left. Mine was so rusted at the edges and corners that I really couldn't blueprint it well and needed to take it apart to recreate some of the measurements and to figure out how it was built as I didn't get any drawings or help from A/C.
• Does the new bottom get bolted to the coach or welded to it? It was originally bolted, correct? On mine, it's all bolted. Spartan supplies the chassis with "outriggers" welded to the frame as you can see in some of the pictures. All the "uprights" as I call them are bolted to these outriggers with 3- 3/8" bolts per side ( so 6 each per full width upright). Then the basement floor is bolted through the bottom of the uprights with self-tapping tek-5 hex head screws.
• Can you recommend sources or ways to find the proper sources for someone NOT "connected" like you to acquire the steel tubes, insulation, ss sheeting, rivets, and all the other stuff you used? Search your area for a commercial steel supplier. Many of them happily sell to the public. In my rebuild I used 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" , 1 1/2" x 3/4", and 1 1/2" x 1" steel tubing, all 16 gauge wall thickness.
• How many hours do you think it would take a rookie to follow your beautiful outline, do the exact same thing and “save” a very nice rig otherwise and double it’s lifespan? No idea, I actually have no idea how much time I have in it...but it's a TON. I did this work over a 4-5 month period working on some part of it everyday...some days 8-12 hours, some an hour or two.

Finally, I'm really curious as to how everything finally "fit?" My basement doors swing up, meet a wire "ring" to latch to on this bottom frame. Have to integrate with the "fixed" panels like water heater, etc. Seems like it would really be tough to get everything aligned. Mine fit like factory, and maybe better in some aspects. This part all comes down to you and your measurements. I traditionally do not do "rough" measurements well. When I fab something it tends to be within thousanths....a 1/16" of an inch of would cause me to cut it apart and start over. Not required in this type of fabrication, but it's an OCD type thing I have.

You did an amazing thing for all of us, we are not worthy but I want to try (unless you'll do mine as your second one in your new business).

Thank you again,
Stuart

Just remember to take it slow when taking it apart and make lots of notes and cell pictures of everything, you'll be the amazed how many times you'll reference them. Also, we have different makes...so no telling if any of this info is the same as your coach.

Good Luck !

[Maik]

Meames1; you answered some of the questions i was thinking to ask you. One answer seams strange; is the way the floor is attached to the uprights/ walls. Tek 5 screws? I did see them on my coach with the floor hanging down, but would have thought they would have bolted the steel in the heavy areas. It seems that the two areas of concern with these coaches is the back wet bay and the forward propane tank bay.

I know I should keep into consideration the time it took to fail from new. But I still do wonder?