BATTERY drain questions

[bamaboy473]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Lets take a look at your Source Manager: http://xantrex.com/documents/Discontinued-Products/Source%20Manager%20II%20Owner's%20Manual.pdf

This is just a guess on my part that the above unit may be like yours.



Oh how this thought plickens!

Rick Y

PS: Take a peak at this... The Heart Interface source manager has failed in our 2000 American Eagle Coach.

Your link is perfect; that's exactly the unit. Before I go any further, I'll make sure that screws are tight. BTW, with the top cover off, I was surprised to see so much dust inside the unit. Suggest that all of us place a light foam pad over the air grate in order to reduce the amount of dust going into our electronics. My coach is 13 years old, so YRMD.

[bamaboy473]

As I've gone through the coach, I noticed that the front A/C had been left in the On/Cool position (left over from summer while on SP).

My question is whether the inverter might have tried to start the A/C while the coach was boon-docked; thus draining the batteries. Will an inverter try to do that if SP is interrupted?

[FormerBoater]

Originally Posted by bamaboy473

As I've gone through the coach, I noticed that the front A/C had been left in the On/Cool position (left over from summer while on SP).

My question is whether the inverter might have tried to start the A/C while the coach was boon-docked; thus draining the batteries. Will an inverter try to do that if SP is interrupted?

Bama,

The picture I referred to is your picture of the A/C 120 Circuit Breaker Panel.

The "Roadside Patio Receptacle" is located in your electrical compartment where your shore power cord resides. There is a cord labeled "Block Heater" that is likely plugged into this receptacle. Based upon the breaker setting in the picture, if the plug is plugged in, your block heater would operate continuously.

Net result- higher electrical power consumption and heating a hot engine from within....not a good ideal!

The only way the Block Heater would drain your House Battery Bank is if the inverter was left ON while in storage, the block heater is plugged in and the coach is not on shore power. If this was the case your House Battery Banks would be drained to the bone.

Your Inverter will not and cannot actuate your A/C units so leaving the A/C on would have NO impact on the battery bank IMHO.

Your Eagle is wired so that all A/C outlets can be powered by one of 3 sources (Inverter, Shore Power or Generator). So on SP or Genset you will have full use of all 120V applicances (Microwave, TV's etc.).

Many other brands have outlets that are powered by the inverter only. That is not the case with your coach.

Before you disconnect and ship your very heavy unit for evaluation, I recommend that you contact the guru on Source Managers- Kevin Mallory who was part of the electrical engineering team at American Coach.

Kevin's company is:

* Call Cruising American RV Service Co in Celina, OH any time for inquiries.

I think that if you simply disconnect and ship this unit to a vendor you are opening a can of worms that quite possibly you will not be able to close.

[bamaboy473]

UPDATE: Here is what we know so far:

I turned the "Roadside Patio Recept" OFF, just for grins. There isn't a Block Heater connection in the SP box, but if it's to fire up the basement TV, that's fine. We don't use it anyway, and better to have it Off for testing purposes.

The Genset starts and runs...and supplies power to the Source Manager. The TRANSFER light is blinking fast, and no power is exiting the SM.

SP supplies power as well, but no power exiting. However, If I flip the, "SP ONLY", toggle, we can have 120V A/C within the coach.

While the Charging light is on, it doesn't seem that there's any charging going on.

That suggests (to me) that the Transfer part is defective, and possibly the Charging part too (if it's separate from the Transfer)

Global Electronics needs the unit in order to provide a R&M quote. They won't flat-rate this unit.

I'll be contacting the other man this morning in order to get his suggestions.
Thanks, all, for following. More to come

[bamaboy473]

Spoke with Kevin and he can send my the kit that will retrofit our Source Manager. If his schedule allows, he might be able to swing by and do the install as well.

In the meantime, I plan to take the unit to Global next week in hopes that they can fix what I have which would keep the OEM equipment in the coach.

Photos of the unit show that it was FILTHY with dust. The air duct that allowed fresh air under the bed has NO filter, so 13 years of dust clogged about 50% of the cooling vents. That may have been the reason for the Overheat Alarm, and possibly the reason for failure.

Gentlemen, these units are a royal PITA to mess with, but vacuuming or blowing them out periodically is probably a very, very good idea. Those vents are on the back of the unit and cannot be seen by inspection.

[okcnewbie]

At least you have power going to it now and can get 120 to the coach.

The fast blinking transfer is the "missing Neutral" fault. You're absolutely positive that the wiring is good all the way to the SM?

You mentioned that the SM thinks that it is charging. You had dead batteries, did you put in a good battery and check the charge voltage/current?

Good luck.

[bamaboy473]

Outlet at the house checked good, and the rest of these all checked good:
15/50A adaptor
50A extension cord
Surge Protector

My guess is that the SM thinks that there is an open N, but there isn't one...but let me ask this question of the experts:

outlet was checked with a line tester and was found to be wired properly. It has serviced the coach for 6 months prior to this failure.

Cords were checked with an ohm-meter

Surge protector was between outlet/adaptor/cord/surge protector and the reel cord at the coach.

Reel cord was checked by checking G and W at the inlet port on the SM.

What could I have missed?

[bamaboy473]

The SM has been removed from the coach and will be going to Global Electronics on Monday. Hope they can fix it.

If not, then Kevin can either supply new equipment, or can possibly install it.

That's where I am today. The over-riding question is whether there is an open N that hasn't been located. If anybody thinks that my testing results are in-conclusive, then I either should go back and test again, or take the coach to a shop, just to make sure.

Thoughts?

[bamaboy473]

Originally Posted by okcnewbie

You mentioned that the SM thinks that it is charging. You had dead batteries, did you put in a good battery and check the charge voltage/current?

Good luck.

While the coach was sitting for 3 weeks, the battery voltage dropped from 6 to low 3s. That would have kept the Charging function from working once I connected to SP.

I REPLACED all 4 batteries with new ones. Charging light came on, and then the unit went dark after 20-30 seconds. Switching to 120V on the unit had no effect; seems that the charging function doesn't work.



The fast-blinking Transfer light suggests either an open N or an internal fault.



The Overheat light came on initially, even though the fans were working. I attribute that to the amount of dust that was in and on the unit (see post 61).

[okcnewbie]

It sounds like you have a pretty good plan.

There is a slight chance (I think) that you could just barely have a neutral connection and read a short (continuity) with the multi meter but not enough connection for current flow. This will only be a concern now if they don't find anything wrong with the SM.

Can't wait to hear what fixes your problem. Hopefully it's only the SM and the repair isn't too costly. Keep us informed.

[bamaboy473]

Originally Posted by okcnewbie

It sounds like you have a pretty good plan.

There is a slight chance (I think) that you could just barely have a neutral connection and read a short (continuity) with the multi meter but not enough connection for current flow. This will only be a concern now if they don't find anything wrong with the SM.

Can't wait to hear what fixes your problem. Hopefully it's only the SM and the repair isn't too costly. Keep us informed.

I dropped the SM off at GLOBAL ELECTRONICS in Buford, GA, this morning. They have a quote to go into the machine, and might have it finished by the weekend. I'll know what caused the glitches at that time.

Please school me about the proper way to test for a good NEUTRAL? I used the handheld meter on the outlet, and used continuity on the three cords, and just read the Surge Protector that said all was well. I'd be happy to do something else in order to be SURE.

[okcnewbie]

Rick, I think you came up with a great method for testing you lines. I think you found your problem and hopefully by this weekend you'll be able to pick up your SM.

I was just trying to say that sometimes there is a flakey connection and a meter's ohms funtion doens't always pick it up. Like when your battery cables on the car are loose. A meter would likely show a short but the current isn't really making it to the battery. If I was a little smarter I would be able to have a better example.

Good luck buddy and thanks for keeping us informed

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by bamaboy473

Please school me about the proper way to test for a good NEUTRAL? I used the handheld meter on the outlet, and used continuity on the three cords, and just read the Surge Protector that said all was well. I'd be happy to do something else in order to be SURE.

A few weeks after getting our new-to-us DP I was reading in bed and smelled smoke. The problem turned out to be a loose neutral in the main AC breaker box under the bed. The connection was so bad that it was generating enough heat to melt the insulation off the white wire. The entire breaker box was quite warm.

As someone else mentioned, a test with a meter would not have found this problem because the continuity was there, it was just not a good enough connection to carry any current.

Turn off all AC power sources, remove the front panel of the breaker box and tighten every terminal screw you see. The neutrals are the white wires all connected to a bus bar. I replaced all the screws on my bus bar because some had been corroded by the heat.

This tightening should be done regularly as the rolling earthquakes we call RVs go down the road.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

A few weeks after getting our new-to-us DP I was reading in bed and smelled smoke. The problem turned out to be a loose neutral in the main AC breaker box under the bed. The connection was so bad that it was generating enough heat to melt the insulation off the white wire. The entire breaker box was quite warm.

As someone else mentioned, a test with a meter would not have found this problem because the continuity was there, it was just not a good enough connection to carry any current.

Turn off all AC power sources, remove the front panel of the breaker box and tighten every terminal screw you see. The neutrals are the white wires all connected to a bus bar. I replaced all the screws on my bus bar because some had been corroded by the heat.

This tightening should be done regularly as the rolling earthquakes we call RVs go down the road.

Just curious, were you hooked to 50 amp or adapted to 30.

In a 50 amp circuit and a near evenly split load, the neutral carries only the difference between each side.

When using a 30 amp adaptor, all return current is carried thru the neutral.

Reading posts here, it seem that the neutrals are always the ones to burn.

I'm either case the neutral should carry the 50 amp load.