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Old 03-19-2015, 05:43 PM   #1
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Computerized Leveling System

Hello All,

Sure hope some might have some answers for me...

I've got a 1992 Fleetwood Pace Arrow, Model 37J.

It has this 'computerized jack leveling system' in it.

I do have a little manual for it, which tells me what the buttons and lights are 'supposed' to do.

The face page has a logo that says, 'HWH Corporation', then, 'Operator Manual HWH Computerizrd Leveling System'.

I'm looking at a page that says, 'Connection Information 610 Systems'.

It shows a diagram of some, (I assume), controller box. And on one end of it, it does show 3 'multi-plug' connections to it, along with locations and designations of 6 fuses.

As marked, there is a 10 amp fuse for each of the 4 jacks, then two 5 amp fuses marked 'Pumps'.

As shown, I have absolutely no idea how big, (or small), this controller box is. I 'seriously' doubt if the diagram / drawing is to any scale.

My problem is, that both my front jacks do swing down, and does raise the front end.

However my rear jacks do 'nothing'. I was able to see that they are pretty rusty...

I figure the very first thing I need to do is check the fuses for those jacks, then the fuses for the pumps.

I'm 'guessing', there might be a separate pump for each set of jacks.

Does anyone know 'where' this controller box might be installed?

I looked around a bit, but couldn't find it. Couldn't see anything that looks like that under the hood.

With winter here, there's a lot of stuff packed up around that area, not to mention some extra curtains to help with the draft from that front area.

Sitting here writing this, I just remembered I have an access panel to the engine compartment. I have not checked there yet...

I'm 'hoping' it's not buried up under the dashboard! I've seen such things, like alarm controllers, remote starters, and other aftermarket accessories, 'buried' up under the dash! It's already like a mass of 'spaghetti' up under there...

I would 'assume' it's got to be mounted 'somewhere', where someone can check those fuses, (and maybe service it). But very often what 'I think' is at least logical, isn't what someone else had even thought of.

When I learned 'hydraulics' were involved, I checked under the hood, and didn't see anything that looked like it might be a hydraulic pump, or any place to check the hydraulic fluid.

Again, I 'assume' that fluid needs to be checked, and maintained, like any other fluids.

Again, not knowing how big this controller box might be, I don't know if it could be stuffed up under the dash, somewhere I missed under the front hood, or maybe, in that engine compartment.

Does anyone out there know 'for sure' where these are 'normally' mounted? I would hate starting to take sections of the dash apart, only to find out it's not there.

Then, I would hate moving a bunch of things out of the way right now, to get to the engine hatch, (cover), to find out it's not there either.

Then, where those hydraulic pumps are located at?

And where I need to go to check the hydraulic fluid?

Hope someone out there has some experience with these...

Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:53 AM   #2
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Update: I checked the internet and found the company that manufactured this leveling system, (HWH), is still in business, and did find a lot of documentation on this particular leveling system.

Including a much better owners manual, full service manual, (and quite detailed), measurements, detailed drawings, and even schematics.... Surprisingly, a lot of information on something that's this old.

After viewing some of this documentation, I'm thinking that all the components associated with this system, 'must' be in the engine compartment. I'm for sure going to have to make plans on getting into that area, and start checking things.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:22 PM   #3
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Another update; the control box is not in the engine compartment. When I turn the system, I hear 'noises' like way back between the front of the dash and engine compartment. I took the CB radio out of the dash to figure out what was wrong with that, (turns out there was no speaker connected), but anyway, I was able to see a lot back inside that area of the dash, and besides a 'rats nest' of wires, no signs of any control box. I did find a fuse socket and fuse, then a relay 'buried' back in there. Now why would anyone totally bury things that need to be checked way up back inside the dash like that, pisses me off. There's a 'reason' for having a fuse box and relay back in a centralized location. It looks like someone did a lot of modifications to this coach, and never left behind any documentation about it.

So anyway, I'm still on thr hunt for that control box, 'where' the hydraulic pumps are at, and where or how the hydraulic fluid is checked. I'm 'assuming' the hydraulic pumps are electrically driven. But don't see any fuses labeled for those anywhere. I'm stumped!
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:38 AM   #4
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Pump / reservoir location

If the 92's are the same front layout as the 91's, then the pump will be in front of your passenger side front wheel, behind the front half of the wheel well (which is removable for access). As to the control box, I haven't actually tracked down mine, though I was under the impression that it was under the dash - rather far under the dash I think, behind the gauges maybe? That's also presuming the 34 had the same layout as your 37, I'm kind of learning as I go myself. Maybe trace out the cable from the control panel to get a general idea of where that goes?
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv851 View Post
If the 92's are the same front layout as the 91's, then the pump will be in front of your passenger side front wheel, behind the front half of the wheel well (which is removable for access). As to the control box, I haven't actually tracked down mine, though I was under the impression that it was under the dash - rather far under the dash I think, behind the gauges maybe? That's also presuming the 34 had the same layout as your 37, I'm kind of learning as I go myself. Maybe trace out the cable from the control panel to get a general idea of where that goes?

Thanks a lot for your reply and input. I had contacted the company themselves, but didn't get much help there. I had found out that sometimes coaches are brought to them for the install, and sometimes these are installed by dealers. And that there was no 'standards' of how or where the components of the system are installed. I've read that the control box could be 'anywhere', even mounted somewhere on the frame.

With all the fuses that allow operation of the system being in the conrol box, one would 'think' that would had been placed in an area with easy access. It seems not... From reading around the forums here, I had found the name and telephone number of some that seems to be an 'expert' on these systems.

I did have one conversation with him so far, and he does indeed know all about these systems! He was extremely helpful, and friendly. He did tell me to look up under the dash for the control box.

Regarding the pumps, he told me to find someone to operate the control, while I was outside, under the hood, then elsewhere as necessary, to follow the 'noise'.

But about my particular problem of the rear stabilizers not coming down, he told me to get under there and pull them down into the vertical position by hand. Something I didn't know was even possible. He said that it was common for those to rust up quickly, and get stuck in that position. But one can pull them down by hand...

He told me to look for some roller bearings and spray them with something like WD-40 or similar. I've got some PB Blaster to spray on mine once I get under there.

I've got the tandam axles, and naturally the rear stabilizers are right in-between the rear tires. So it's going to take crawling under, then around in the back, and behind the tires.

I've been under there before, running new cable when I started upgrading from 30 to 50 amp service. And it wasn't very fun, or easy! Something I have to do again, to run more cable.

After the winter weight I put in, I'm not sure I will even fit under there again, unless I get those stabilizers down. My rear tires are sinking into the ground. So it's a real tight squeeze under there.


If you need some more help, I don't think (I hope), he would mind if I posted his name and number here for you. After all, he posted his name and number in the forums here when helping someone else with a problem.

So if you need, try Shef at 602 549 3638.

He invited me to call him back if I needed more help. Again, he's extremely knowledgeable, very nice and friendly.
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:16 AM   #6
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2x follow the noise.
Sometimes there is a controller box mounted on the ceiling of a bay, midships. Manual adj to calibrate the auto leveling system are done here.
Caterpillar makes an additive to be used in hyd jack systems to help with corroded/sticky cyl.
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Old 04-15-2015, 06:12 AM   #7
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2x follow the noise.
Sometimes there is a controller box mounted on the ceiling of a bay, midships. Manual adj to calibrate the auto leveling system are done here.
Caterpillar makes an additive to be used in hyd jack systems to help with corroded/sticky cyl.



I had heard about the a level component mounted 'somewhere', apart from the rest of the components. Though I had heard it's most likely mounted under the coach. I do not know what it looks like, but haven't seen 'anything' on the inside, that I wondered what it could be for. So I do not think mine is on the inside anywhere.

I'd love to put some additive in the hydraulic system to help maintain it better, but first I have to find where my system is!

I assume like any other fluid hydraulic fluid needs to be checked, but I had not yet found where I could check that at. By advise I was given, I need to get someone to turn the system while I'm on the outside, trying to follow the noise.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb60 View Post

After the winter weight I put in, I'm not sure I will even fit under there again, unless I get those stabilizers down. My rear tires are sinking into the ground. So it's a real tight squeeze under there.
Don't crawl underneath with the stabilizers lifting the coach. That's about like crawling under a car when it's on the jack. Use jackstands to give you more room if needed.
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:27 PM   #9
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Don't crawl underneath with the stabilizers lifting the coach. That's about like crawling under a car when it's on the jack. Use jackstands to give you more room if needed.

Thanks for the concern and advice!

I'm going to have to find some 'big honking jack stands' for this beast. It's supposed to be just over 18,000 pounds 'empty'.

Then 'something' to support the jack stands themselves. There probably wouldn't be enough space for a large concrete type brick. I may have to settle on some boards, but the ground is pretty soft here. After things settle some, I should be able to add a second board.

Got lots of work ahead of me!
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:01 AM   #10
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The oil I used and worked for me was Cat P/N IU 9891, I think it ran about $40 a qt. After you fine the reservoir pull an equal amt of fluid out and put it in.
A good rust penetrator on the exposed rusty pistons, such as PB Blaster, should help break them loose if you soak them for a couple of hours.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:10 AM   #11
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I had a 93 Pace Arrow Diesel pusher with an HWH "Computerized" jack system.


First off, be thankful it's an HWH jack system & not a Powergear!


Will need some more information on your jacks. Are they the "kick-down" jacks? Meaning, when retracted are they Horzontal when stowed and then "kick-down" when retracting?


If they are kickdown jacks the rear jacks might be rusted. In the kickdown jacks you will see two cylinders/jack. The main (large) cylinder and right next to it is a smaller kick-down cylinder.


My pump was in the back of the coach (Diesel Pusher) not sure where yours is. When you locate it take a picture.


My jack motor sat on top of the hydraulic tank and 4 solenoids across the top. Each solenoid for each jack. Just one hose running to each jack.


When I turn the system on and hit the jack button the pump kisks in, starts supplying fluid to each jack. The smaller jack will react firsk, kicking the jack to a vertical posistion. Then the 4 jacks will continue to extend till they touch the ground. when all four jacks touch the ground te system stops. Hit the button a 2nd time & it will start leveling.


Each of my jacks have a pressure switch AND a level switch, the level switch tells the system when the jack is vertical.


Perhaps the rear jacks are so rusted only the forward jacks are functioning.


Again, HWH company not bad to work with if you get the right person & have as much info as possible BEFORE calling.


Keep us posted on your project.


Like others have stated, when the jacks are deploying listen for the pump.


NEVER fill the hydraulic tank when ANY of the jacks extended. Always check level and/or fill when ALL jacks retracted.


Automatic trans fluid, Dextron 2 is used in my jacks.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:50 PM   #12
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Thanks for the additional information. I was working on it some today. My jacks are in an upright, horizontal position when stored.

I managed to reach up and pull the rear jacks down in the vertical position. Though I had to clear some dirt away first. That's how low I was sinking. I sprayed everything down real good with that P Blaster penetrating fluid. Made everything really greasy and oily, which was fun when I had to reach up there again.

I turned the system on and the rear jacks did go down some. I had seen the square holes in the dirt. I put the jacks back up in the store position, put some boards down, and turned the system back in again.

The rear jacks really didn't lift the coach any. They only ectended a couple inches, while the front would extend at least 8 to 10 inches.

I was back and forth, up and down the stairs, then reaching through the drivers door more times than I could count!

One time one of the jacks would not store all the way, another time one jack wouldn't extend into the vertical position again, and I had to pull it down by hand again.

I was burning gas, my engine temp gauge isn't working, so was worried about that, and was 'totally' wearing myself out!

Possibly the rear needs more fluid, possibly there's other issues, I don't know...

But I do suspect the entire system has more problems than I can deal with right now. On the control panel, even with the front jacks all the way down, the 'Travel' LED was on.

And someone installed a light on the other side of the steering wheel, (opposide the control panel), marked 'Jacks Down', and I had never seen that go on.

Just seeing that, and that Travel light on, tells me that 'someone' got in there and 'played around' with things.

Anyway, after all the frustration, and other projects waiting on me, I left everything the way it was, cleaned myself up, put all the extra boards away, came back in the coach, (took my pain meds), sat down on the couch and did a search on the internet for some heavy duty scissor jacks!

I found some rated at 7500 pounds that will extend 24 inches.

The area right inbetween the rear wheels are where the rear jacks are, and where the original chassis joins with the extension chassis. I figure I'll just set some scissor jacks right there with boards under and above the jacks, and be done with it for now.

Even with the front jacks extended, 'I think' all the way down, they still don't lift the wheels off the ground. I can put more boards down, and 'maybe' get them up off the ground. But I can only imagine how many boards it would take to lift that back end.

It's going to be one another of those running back and forth, in and out processes, 'hoping' the jacks push the current board down an inch and a half, so I can add another, and another...

So I think for now, I'll do the scissor jacks, just to keep this from sinking further into the ground.

And besides, one side is sunk down more than the other, and I'm just tired of 'bouncing off' the hallway wall each time I walk through there!
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I'm going to have to find some 'big honking jack stands' for this beast. It's supposed to be just over 18,000 pounds 'empty'.
12 Ton Jack Stands and they're on sale right now, $99/pair.

Or, you could do the red-neck thing and use cinder blocks, BUT if you do that make sure you put the holes in the blocks vertical rather than horizontal, and put 2x6 or preferably 2x8 flat above and below the blocks. Below to give better ground surface area, above to distribute the point load a bit better.

You can use the levelling jacks to lift the rig, just don't depend on them to support it when you're underneath if there's not enough room for you to crawl underneath without them.

I'm wondering if there's a curb nearby so that you could run the wheels on one side up onto the curb, thereby giving you another 8" or so to work with.
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:56 AM   #14
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I didn't see your remarks about the scissor jacks before I posted. I'm thinking you may want to put some 2x12 under the wheels to keep them from sinking.

Yeah the fun of an older rig is figuring out what's been done by predecessors.
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