Community Forums

metalfarm · 11-10-2020, 04:16 AM

Budget is 100k (we are financially free -this is not a burden)
Looking for Gas Class A
Used is very hard to find anything decent right now
We want bunks which limits our search even more

Currently looking at a new 36' Flair. It checks all boxes. My concern is spending 6 figures on what I think is considered an entry-level coach but I guess that's what I get in my price range?

Does anyone have one of these? Will we like it? Will the upholstery be torn up in a month? We have two in diapers.

Any thoughts on the new V8? Seems odd to go from a V10 to a V8 in such a big unit but it seems the V8 has more HP.

Thanks!

R.Wold · 11-10-2020, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalfarm

Budget is 100k (we are financially free -this is not a burden)
Looking for Gas Class A
Used is very hard to find anything decent right now
We want bunks which limits our search even more

Currently looking at a new 36' Flair. It checks all boxes. My concern is spending 6 figures on what I think is considered an entry-level coach but I guess that's what I get in my price range?

Does anyone have one of these? Will we like it? Will the upholstery be torn up in a month? We have two in diapers.

Any thoughts on the new V8? Seems odd to go from a V10 to a V8 in such a big unit but it seems the V8 has more HP.

Thanks!

The V8 is a larger displacement engine and with less cylinders these two facts mean larger bore and stroke so while it makes about the same power in RV trim, it does so at a lower RPM. There will also probably be more you can do to improve performance over the next couple years as the after market adjusts to the new platform. I see the new engine as an improvement, and there have also been some minor but noticeable handling improvements in the F53 chassis as well.

As to the coach itself - durability, quality, etc, you just have to do you research and then really scrutinize the product to be sure it meets your standards and expectations. Fleetwood is owned by the REV group and I don’t hear many complaints about them. They also make some very good fire engines and ambulances among (many) other things, so they know how to build a quality unit. I don’t know how this extends to the RV market, but all the other REV group RV brands are quality products (HR, American Coach, Monaco, Lance) and it’s certainly more encouraging than if Fleetwood were owned by a couple other major manufacturers that have left a trail of dissatisfaction and disappointment behind them.

Good luck with your search - I think you’re probably on the right track.

Helpful link for RV shopping:
https://campaddict.com/rv-manufacturers/
The REV Group:
https://www.revgroup.com/
7.3 performance stuff (not really RV applicable but shows the potential):
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...th-basic-mods/
7.3 HP/torque in the pick-up market application:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...iter-v8-specs/

ETnRvr · 11-10-2020, 07:02 AM

We owned a 2019 28 foot Fleetwood Flair. Build quality was good but it was just too small for us. If you buy one, try to attend the Fleetwood Rally. They have a lot of good information and lots of happy owners.

groswald · 11-10-2020, 08:28 AM

Fleetwood (Bounder) was on our list as a possibility. My research suggested Fleetwood has generally good quality, behind Newmar/Tiffin and just a bit behind Winnebago.

What finally knocked them out were a couple of design decisions we didn’t care for: Vacuum toilets - problems waiting to happen, and a single bath where the door couldn’t be opened with the slides in.

We did look at the Flair too. They offer similar/same floor plans and are nearly identical mechanically, as near as I could tell. The main difference is the trim level, with the Flair being “entry level” trim and the Bounder and pretty big step up as you’ve noted.

I don’t think the Flair will be a bad choice, but if a nicer used coach is what you’d prefer they are out there. You’ll need to be online everyday looking at new postings, jumping on anything that looks like what you want, and be prepared to put a (refundable) deposit on it immediately.

We found our NTU 2016 Tiffin that way. We’d been looking for several weeks. A dealer in Loveland CO posted it on a Tuesday evening, my wife saw it online Wednesday afternoon, and we were there (120 miles from home) first thing Thursday morning to inspect and buy.

Good luck!

Randy

metalfarm · 11-10-2020, 01:59 PM

I'm having a real hard time with the fact that this thing is considered "entry-level"

I generally like to have the best of everything.

What are your thoughts on this?

johninsd · 11-10-2020, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalfarm

I'm having a real hard time with the fact that this thing is considered "entry-level"

I generally like to have the best of everything.

What are your thoughts on this?

Define "best". Value for money maybe? Can you have more fun in a million dollar RV than in a 10,000 dollar RV? It's your money - you decide.

groswald · 11-10-2020, 03:46 PM

I certainly know how you feel! Or Axis was definitely “entry level”. We had a lot of fun in it, but it wasn’t terribly comfortable, the features were ok but not great, and fit and finish was marginal at best. Coupled with Thor’s bottom-of-the-barrel overall quality we were not sorry to let it go.

In deciding on a new coach, we knew we wanted something that “felt like home” when we came back from a day of doing whatever. We didn’t need (or want) a Newell, but we wanted something that was comfortable, warm and inviting, and we wanted top of the line quality. The Tiffin checked all of the boxes.

We looked at a lot of coaches before we bought, and there were several that would have worked for us, including “entry level” Flairs and Winnie Vistas. But, they didn’t have the comfortable feel we wanted and were ultimately rejected.

I figure a motorhome is a major investment and a long-term money sink to boot. If an entry level unit suits you, perfect! If not, you don’t owe anyone an explanation. The only wrong motorhome is one that doesn’t make you happy. My son and his family are loving their used 10’ popup. That’s what it’s all about.

Regards,

Randy

metalfarm · 11-10-2020, 04:01 PM

This one seems to fit all of our needs. It’s the length we want. 36’ big enough without being intimidating. Has bunk beds which we want for our little ones. Outdoor kitchen. King bed. Correct floor plan. I just don’t want to buy it and 5 months later the doors are falling off the cabinets and the upholstery is ripped to heck and I’m looking at a bounder or a Tiffin. Wife insists entry level is what we need because it’s our first. I prefer to join a band with a Gibson les Paul standard than a Mexican strat

R.Wold · 11-10-2020, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalfarm

I'm having a real hard time with the fact that this thing is considered "entry-level"

I generally like to have the best of everything.

What are your thoughts on this?

I think your on the right track with Fleetwood with your stated budget. I you want the next step up, Fortis is a $45k bump and then you’re into Tiffin and Newmar country.

A well-optioned Bay Star 3616 with bunks is the same price as the base Fortis with bunks:
https://www.newmarcorp.com/shopping-...=2&cabinetry=1

Tiffin Open Road is right in there.

Gary RVRoamer · 11-10-2020, 04:22 PM

It IS an entry level coach - just about the bottom of the Fleetwood line-up. If you want something nicer & better built, buy a used coach of a higher line, e.g. Fleetwood Southwind, Winnebago Adventurer, Newmar canyon Star, etc. Those models cost 30%+ more than a Flair, and there are reasons for that.

Entry level doesn't make it bad, but it does mean lower grade cabinetry, upholstery, flooring, exterior trim, etc., and usually lacks some features as well. Maybe a smaller fridge or smaller water heater, no inverter, whatever. You have to read the specs carefully to find all the differences, and sometimes you have to physically look at the coach and behind its covers. Whether those differences are important, only you can decide.

groswald · 11-10-2020, 04:36 PM

I do understand! It's hard to know what you'll really enjoy with no experience. That said, if you don't love it on the lot it isn't going to get any better in a campground.

Get your wife in a Bounder, Tiffen, Newmar, or Winnie Vista LX and just sit for a while. Wander around inside for a bit. Open everything. Peer deeply into the corners. Sit on the toilet (really) and climb in the shower (shoes off first). Have the family sit around the table and find comfortable spots and pretend to watch TV. Then, do the same in the Flair. Afterwards ponder the question, "which will I most enjoy spending time in?" Subversive, I know, but we aim to please.

You may decide that the Flair is indeed perfect. Or, you may realize that it isn't really what you're after.

To give you some idea what an alternative might look like, you could get a 2015 Tiffin 35QBA (bunkhouse floorplan) for around the same $100K you'll spend on the Fleetwood. It will be used, but it will also have all of the kinks worked out, and like a Newmar or Winnie, will have great overall quality.

You'll lose 20% of the 100K you pay for the Flair when you leave the lot, and another 20% over the next two years. Depreciation flattens out a bit after that. With the used coach the original owner paid that penalty, and you get a nicer coach for a lot less money.

The Flair will have a warranty, a used coach won't; although some dealers will give you 30 days after the purchase. There's always the chance that the "doors will fall off" a used coach, but, unfortunately that's true of many new coaches as well. It's something you need to be prepared for before you buy any motorhome.

There are lots of threads on new vs. used here so I'll not ramble on about it. It's a tough decision. Whatever you do, make sure you love it before you buy it. That will give you the best possible shot of still loving it down the road.

Regards,

Randy

metalfarm · 11-10-2020, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groswald

I do understand! It's hard to know what you'll really enjoy with no experience. That said, if you don't love it on the lot it isn't going to get any better in a campground.

Get your wife in a Bounder, Tiffen, Newmar, or Winnie Vista LX and just sit for a while. Wander around inside for a bit. Open everything. Peer deeply into the corners. Sit on the toilet (really) and climb in the shower (shoes off first). Have the family sit around the table and find comfortable spots and pretend to watch TV. Then, do the same in the Flair. Afterwards ponder the question, "which will I most enjoy spending time in?" Subversive, I know, but we aim to please.

You may decide that the Flair is indeed perfect. Or, you may realize that it isn't really what you're after.

To give you some idea what an alternative might look like, you could get a 2015 Tiffin 35QBA (bunkhouse floorplan) for around the same $100K you'll spend on the Fleetwood. It will be used, but it will also have all of the kinks worked out, and like a Newmar or Winnie, will have great overall quality.

You'll lose 20% of the 100K you pay for the Flair when you leave the lot, and another 20% over the next two years. Depreciation flattens out a bit after that. With the used coach the original owner paid that penalty, and you get a nicer coach for a lot less money.

The Flair will have a warranty, a used coach won't; although some dealers will give you 30 days after the purchase. There's always the chance that the "doors will fall off" a used coach, but, unfortunately that's true of many new coaches as well. It's something you need to be prepared for before you buy any motorhome.

There are lots of threads on new vs. used here so I'll not ramble on about it. It's a tough decision. Whatever you do, make sure you love it before you buy it. That will give you the best possible shot of still loving it down the road.

Regards,

Randy

LOVE the QBA suggestion. Two problems. Im very tall and need a King bed. Also the interior on these 2015 ish looks like my grandmas living room. Wife likes the 2021 because it looks modern. Seems everything used is beige and brown and looks like my grandma is drinking PBR in it. I mean I can even smell grandparents looking at these pictures. We are in our 30s

You were extremely helpful. Any other nicer slightly used bunk models you recommend that might not look grandma?

groswald · 11-10-2020, 05:46 PM

Can’t help you there. We’re grandma and papa to 8 wonderful grandkids. No PBR in the fridge, but you might find the Grateful Dead on the radio.

I’m afraid it’s true that more “upscale” models do tend to cater more to my generation than they do yours. There are some exceptions, but they are few and far between. It does seem that entry-level coaches are trending to lighter colors and less ornate Euro styled cabinets.

Do be aware that RV “king” beds aren’t. A standard king is 76 x 80. The “king” in the Flair is 72 x 74. The “queen” in the Tiffin is probably 60 x 80. The king in our Tiffin is 72 x 80.

Regards,

Randy

metalfarm · 11-10-2020, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groswald

Can’t help you there. We’re grandma and papa to 8 wonderful grandkids. No PBR in the fridge, but you might find the Grateful Dead on the radio.

I’m afraid it’s true that more “upscale” models do tend to cater more to my generation than they do yours. There are some exceptions, but they are few and far between. It does seem that entry-level coaches are trending to lighter colors and less ornate Euro styled cabinets.

Do be aware that RV “king” beds aren’t. A standard king is 76 x 80. The “king” in the Flair is 72 x 74. The “queen” in the Tiffin is probably 60 x 80. The king in our Tiffin is 72 x 80.

Regards,

Randy

Yes I'm finding a few things out in my search.

- These things are way too brown and beige and we live in a gray world
- Bunk beds are hard to find in anything under 38-40 ft

I'm not really finding anything 36' with king bed and bunk beds other than this Flair. I am NOT ready for anything over 36' I know that for sure.