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Old 01-16-2017, 08:36 AM   #71
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My understanding of that part of the operation (controller to the dump valve) there are really only two wires, and to operate the dump valve the polarity is reversed to open and close the valve.

My question is what tells the controller to send the signal to the dump valve.

Glenn
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:59 AM   #72
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I just today got off phone with American Coach, spoke to someone who was very knowledgeable in this obsolete system. The air bag dump is activated by the controller when the on/off touch-pad button is pushed. It supplies the power from pin 1 of the 4 pin connector & ground from pin # 2 to the controller for the dump valve, then when the jacks up/retract button is pushed the controller then uses pin 3 for voltage and 4 for ground.
Only thing I forgot to ask is how the dash dump switch is wired into the system....

In other news, she also provided me enough information to know I have a defective controller.

The controller has a main 12 volt power at pin 5 of the 6 pin connector. The controller main ground is pin #1 of the 8 wire connector. I have varified this.
However I'm not getting any power from the controller to the touch pad from the 2 wire connector.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:43 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackwrench View Post
I just today got off phone with American Coach, spoke to someone who was very knowledgeable in this obsolete system. The air bag dump is activated by the controller when the on/off touch-pad button is pushed. It supplies the power from pin 1 of the 4 pin connector & ground from pin # 2 to the controller for the dump valve, then when the jacks up/retract button is pushed the controller then uses pin 3 for voltage and 4 for ground.
Only thing I forgot to ask is how the dash dump switch is wired into the system....

In other news, she also provided me enough information to know I have a defective controller.

The controller has a main 12 volt power at pin 5 of the 6 pin connector. The controller main ground is pin #1 of the 8 wire connector. I have varified this.
However I'm not getting any power from the controller to the touch pad from the 2 wire connector.
So if the on/off button on the touch pad dumps the air in the suspension, what action causes the air suspension to air up?

The two wire connector between the controller and the touch pad is a data connection correct? I would not think that it would then have a constant 12 volt potential would it?

Glenn
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:45 PM   #74
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While I was writing the update (grandkids visiting... multiple distractions!) and about ready to post, I saw Macwrench posted a reply about getting some info from American Coach. I decided to post this anyway as it may help others that are just starting to figure out how this leveling system operates and interacts with the coach air suspension system.

Quote:
Just ranting, but somewhere somebody knows how the jacks operate. I mean does the controller ground the circuit for the right rear jack and the jack go down? I have 12 volts on both sides of all 3 jack solenoid's.
Let me share and add to the growing knowledge base.

I have poked around on my leveling system a fair amount as I had to repair it in 2016. I had an issue where my jacks wouldn't consistently retract. I still need to add what I did to my project thread but it wound up being a faulty circuit board. I was able to find a replacement control module ($150ish) as I couldn't find the issue on the circuit board.

I've done online research, did research by reviewing schematics, and following lines on my coach, watching how it operates, and have spoken with Bill at Power Gear. At the end of last month, I did some additional looking and testing.

I have the 500645 controller but I believe all the Power Gear controllers operate the same way. I also have the 3 jack leveling system with one jack in front and 2 jacks in the rear of the coach just behind the drive axle.



To answer your question Macwrench, the controller does ground the circuits. +12 is provided to the pump, the jack solenoids, and the jack dump valve (not to be confused with the air suspension dump valve!) through a common 10 amp line located near the pump reservoir.

If you put your voltmeter on the large connector that comes from the pump/solenoids (mine is the one in the upper left hand corner labeled pump harness connector) you'll see +12V on each solenoid wire. When you extend all jacks or retract the jacks the 3 wires from the solenoids drop to 0 (ground is applied) and the solenoids are energized. If the pump needs to run, a ground is applied to that wire.

If you're adjusting the level by using the front, left, right or back buttons on the keypad , then only one (or two in the case of the back adjustment) will energize. Of course, the pump is also running in these cases.

Summarizing:

Press the extend all key:
All jack solenoids are energized and the pump runs while the key is being pressed.

Press the front key to raise the coach:
Only the front solenoid is energized and the pump runs while the key is pressed.

Press the left key:
Only the driver's side solenoid is energized and the pump runs while the key is pressed.

Press the right key:
Only the passenger side solenoid is energized and the pump runs while the key is pressed.

Press the Back (or rear) key:
Both the left and right jack solenoids are energized and the pump runs while the key is pressed.

Press the Retract Jacks key::
All 3 jack solenoids are energized and the dump valve is energized. The pump doesn't run. The jack springs retract the jacks and force the hydraulic fluid back into the reservoir. The jacks extended indicator on the control keypad remains on until the float switch in the reservoir signals fluid levels have returned to normal full level.

While the above might be very elementary to some, I thought I'd spell it out for others that might be trying to figure out what happens when you press those keypad buttons.


Quote:
What I would really like to know is what tells the controller that the air suspension system can be activated?
Moving on to that pesky auxiliary connector on the controller module that GleenLever asked about.

My aux connector is in the upper right hand corner. I only have 2 wires connected to it. A green one and a red one. The green is in position 2 and the Red on is in position 4. These wires run to the air suspension dump valve. The 12V needed to move the air suspension shuttle valve on my Freightliner chassis is not provided from the leveling system controller by comes from a chassis 12V source.

Keep in mind, the leveling control module is grounding the wires to energize things.

Last month we had a couple of days of nice weather so I went out and did some testing of that connector. Here's what I observed and will try to make this readable. I'll group each observation this way: Leveling System State, Green Wire reading, Red Wire reading and then other comments.

State: Ignition off, leveler off, jacks retracted.
Pin 2 Green: 12V
Pin 4 Red: 12V
Other: No grounds applied. Green and Red wire seeing 12V

State: Ignition on, leveler off, jacks retracted
Pin 2 Green: 12V
Pin 4 Red: 0V
Other: Leveling module is signalling the shuttle valve in the air suspension system to 'air up' by grounding pin 4.

State: Ignition on, leveler on, pushing the 'Extend all Jacks' key
Pin 2 Green: 0V
Pin 4 Red: 12V
Other: The red wire is no longer grounded and goes to 12V immediately upon pressing the all jack down button. This signals the shuttle valve to change position to dump the air suspension. You can hear the shuttle valve move with a noticeable click.

State: Ignition on, leveler on, pressed retract jacks key
Pin 2 Green: 12V
Pin 4 Red: 0V
Other: The red wire applies ground within a second or so of the retract jacks button being pressed. This signals the shuttle valve to change state and begin to air up the suspension.

To summarize the above detail:

When the jacks are extended, Pin 2 is grounded and Pin 4 is open to tell the dump valve to dump the air suspension.

When the jacks are retracted, Pin 2 is open and Pin 4 is grounded to tell the dump valve to air up the suspension.

This confirms what Macwrench posted.

Again, the detail is meant to help others understand their Power Gear leveling system. It also helps me remember how it works by documenting it.

Take Care!
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:13 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
So if the on/off button on the touch pad dumps the air in the suspension, what action causes the air suspension to air up?

The two wire connector between the controller and the touch pad is a data connection correct? I would not think that it would then have a constant 12 volt potential would it?

Glenn
This is what I was told......
This version touch pad has 3 wires, #3 is connected to a Jack's down light and buzzer on the dash that comes on if the coach is put it gear or parking brake released.
#'s 1 & 2 are in fact power to the touch pad from the controller. I don't know how the touch pad commicates with the controller.

There's no voltage or ground at with of the pins on the 2 wire connector on my controller, and AC tells me thats why my touch pad is not powering up....
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:17 PM   #76
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MrDave, thanks for the information.
You have a newer version on the controller. Also your touch pad has more wiring from controller. But yes, the operation principal is same

I now know way more than I ever desired too about this system!!!!!

I have returned my controller to Global Electronics .... Should have it back in a week. I'll start over then...lol
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:52 PM   #77
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I think we are all finally learning about these systems -- good stuff.

I will have to reread and digest this all a bit.

When I get back to the US I will post the pneumatic diagram that is on the dump valve --- that may also help put some logic into what we see happening.

very interesting and why there is an RV site as I see it. again good stuff .

thanks -- Dale
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:40 AM   #78
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There has not been much added thread in a while, but wanted to add this piece of information that came up in another thread.

What should the level be in the reservoir tank. This is from the Power Gear Parts and Service manual page three, I have attached the manual below in a PDF.



On the next page in the same manual is the recommended frequency of changing the fluid (which I need to do).





Have a happy fourth!
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:57 PM   #79
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GlennLever suggested I mention my thread about trying to find an alternative part to replace one of my failing coil.

Here is the thread.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:05 PM   #80
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Power Gear Hydraulic Leveler - Pump
While halfway through our recent trip to Alaska my hydraulic levelers died.
They are Power gear, three point, with obsolete controller 500105 and power unit 500452

It smelled like the motor was very burned. I pulled the motor from the leveler (three point jack unit) and it showed an open circuit. I ordered one while in Alaska and got it two weeks later. I installed it and got no movement when testing. I pulled that motor and it smelled bad but still tested good. Using some pliers I determined that the pump itself was not turning. My research on the internet confirmed that this was not unusual. I decided to wait until returning to Florida to remove the entire unit.

I pulled the power unit today and took it apart. As suspected there is a broken gear in the pump.

I have now ordered a new pump service kit from Lippert (current owner of Power Gear I believe) for about $440 with shipping and tax. (part 800301)

I also ordered a new motor but will keep the other as a spare.
(Is there any way to spray insulate the stator/rotor to keep as a better spare)

The removal of the old unit took about two hours. The procedure was
1 drain unit --(two gallons)
2--remove solenoid electrics
3 remove motor -- two long bolts on top -- not easy to reach, motor must be pried up as there is no endplate and lower bearing is in pump unit.
4 numbered all electrical connections and removed connectors (five total)
5 due to limited access I decided to remove the unit from RV mount then remove the hydraulic hoses -- two bolts hold the unit to a bracket on RV
6 -- with more space I then removed the three hydraulic hoses. (forgot to number those -- we will see)

That frees it from the RV -- disassembly further is simple and was obvious.

I am now awaiting the hydraulic pump and new motor.
thanks -- Dale
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:24 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale70 View Post
Power Gear Hydraulic Leveler - Pump
While halfway through our recent trip to Alaska my hydraulic levelers died.
They are Power gear, three point, with obsolete controller 500105 and power unit 500452

It smelled like the motor was very burned. I pulled the motor from the leveler (three point jack unit) and it showed an open circuit. I ordered one while in Alaska and got it two weeks later. I installed it and got no movement when testing. I pulled that motor and it smelled bad but still tested good. Using some pliers I determined that the pump itself was not turning. My research on the internet confirmed that this was not unusual. I decided to wait until returning to Florida to remove the entire unit.

I pulled the power unit today and took it apart. As suspected there is a broken gear in the pump.

I have now ordered a new pump service kit from Lippert (current owner of Power Gear I believe) for about $440 with shipping and tax. (part 800301)

I also ordered a new motor but will keep the other as a spare.
(Is there any way to spray insulate the stator/rotor to keep as a better spare)

The removal of the old unit took about two hours. The procedure was
1 drain unit --(two gallons)
2--remove solenoid electrics
3 remove motor -- two long bolts on top -- not easy to reach, motor must be pried up as there is no endplate and lower bearing is in pump unit.
4 numbered all electrical connections and removed connectors (five total)
5 due to limited access I decided to remove the unit from RV mount then remove the hydraulic hoses -- two bolts hold the unit to a bracket on RV
6 -- with more space I then removed the three hydraulic hoses. (forgot to number those -- we will see)

That frees it from the RV -- disassembly further is simple and was obvious.

I am now awaiting the hydraulic pump and new motor.
thanks -- Dale
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With contributions like these to this thread it makes it a warehouse of knowledge.
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:44 AM   #82
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Repairing Cylinders - Power gear lists some of their cylinders as obsolete and does not provide parts for them. In my case, I was able to make the part (any machine shop could do this) and save myself about $1600, the cost of a new cyklinder.

The internal parts, o-rings, scrapers, seals, etc are generally off the shelf components and a complete set of orings and seals can be had for about $10 from any industrial seal company.

I have two articles I wrote when I disassembled my cylinders and re-built it. Any DIYer should be able to handle this task.

Power Gear 500384 hydraulic jack teardown – 1999 Southwind 35S

Power Gear 500384 hydraulic jack re-assembly – 1999 Southwind 35S

..
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:47 AM   #83
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Pump sounds horrible. My pump sounded like someone put marbles in a food blender.

The pump still worked, but it sounded real bad. Turns out it was the front bearing of the pump motor had corroded and was almost completely destroyed.

The bearing cost about $8. A new motor assembly can be had for about $220.

I wrote a short article with a lot of photos documenting my replacement of the front bearing.

Leveler pump sounds like a food blender full of marbles – 1999 Southwind 35S

..
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:50 AM   #84
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This thread has become a real source of knowledge on the leveling systems!

Would really like to see it keep going, maybe get the title changed to reflect the content, and clean up the first page
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