American Coach: Our "New" 1991 American Eagle - A Work in Progress

[cwk]

This may be helpful to someone someday. I know it helped me greatly.

While searching for parts in the conversion to a ducted A/C system, I found a webpage on airxcel.com that had a "Ceiling Assembly Selector." It was easy to use, except I did not know how to answer the question of duct direction. The two choices were "Lateral Duct" and "Center Duct." I could not find anything helpful on the airxcel site, nor on any of the vendor sites that I found.

Finally, tonight I found the rvcomfort.com website. While using their "Search Ceiling Assemblies" page, I noticed a small question mark next to "Duct Direction" that looked like a hyperlink. So, I clicked and found the following diagram that illustrates the difference.




I now know how I can run ductwork down the length of the coach and avoid the center-located ceiling vents and fans.

[cwk]

One advantage to having the carpet out is that leaks that make it to the floor level inside the coach are easy to spot.

Anyway, I have found an accumulation of water inside the bedroom window frame. The water pools up in the window shade frame, leaks down the wallpaper (dirty streaks just started showing up recently), then disappears behind the wainscoting, reappearing on the plywood subfloor.

There are a number of possible sources.

1) The bedroom roof A/C unit has a gasket that is compressed to almost nothing (28 years).
2) The seam between the roof and the exterior sidewall.
3) The frame around the window
4) The bracket(s) for the window awning.

I am trying process of elimination right now. Eventually (when we get a break in the heat and daily rains) I want to replace the roof sealant with EternaBond tape. But, I want to locate and stop this leak now.

The location of one of the awning brackets is very close to where the water appears at the bottom corner of the window. I am wondering if water is getting inside the wall, traveling down, hitting a horizontal wood framing member, then appearing at the window corner.

Here is one of the awning brackets (the rear-most bracket on the passenger side of the coach). This side of the window appears to be dry for now. You can see water running down the side of the coach above the bracket just next to the window.




On the other side of the window, you can see water running directly down to the bracket. Yesterday I tried making some temporary dams to redirect the water around the bracket. This morning the floor inside was still wet, so I am not sure if the blue tape helped, or there is another source for the leak.



Meanwhile, as part of maintenance I thought it would be smart to address the gaskets under the awning brackets.


QUESTIONS:

1) Is the rubber-looking material under the bracket a rubber gasket?

2) Would replacing the existing gasket with butyl tape be an effective, and long-term, solution?


I could not find replacement gaskets for the brackets online.

What is recommended?

Thanks!!!

[ronspradley]

Charles, another place to look is the channel of the window frame. There are weep holes in that bottom channel and if they are clogged it might cause your leak.


ronspradley

[NHRA225]

Looks like a BR awning.
When I had mine off for paint I Silicone'd the Top mounting rail and the screw holes on the bottom brackets. There were no gaskets per say under My Brackets.

[guardrail53]

One other thing, is the exit window are known to leak, bad design, and the top of the awning bracket should be sealed to the side wall! The water should drain out of the window channels, and if you are concerned with the awning bracket, run a bead of caulk across the top, after cleaning good!

[Gordon Dewald]

Leaks are terrible and can be from the most interesting spots. Once water gets in it seems to have its own mind where it travels. We had one in the coach which I tracked to a very small point on a seam. In inlet was a couple feet from the exit.

Hope you are able to find it quickly. As Stan suggests adding caulking to everything that looks like it might leak may be the easiest way. I do not use silicone.

[cwk]

Thanks, guys.

Since water runs downhill (usually), a trip up the ladder this morning revealed an interesting view above the bedroom window in question.



The most obvious is the wide path of the air conditioner's condensation path. I have been running the A/C almost constantly to keep the coach comfortable inside while I work on the interior. Combined with the seasonal heavy afternoon rains in NE Florida, there has been no lack of water supply to the roof.

The "caulk" where the roof meets the sidewall looks like some type of grey putty. When touched with my plastic knife most of it turned into powder. Interestingly, the grey caulk that is on the metal trim is solid and hard to remove. There are cracks in this caulk for quite a few feet along this seam.

This is not the same "caulking" that was used where the front and rear caps meet the roof. That looks like Dicor lap sealant, or equivalent. It is also showing signs of decay, and needs to be addressed as well.

The metal trim/drip rail/gutter is riveted onto the coach. However, in the left side of the photo one can see a bolt head. It looks like someone added a lag-bolt to reattach the trim, and sidewall, to the coach. Hopefully there is no major interior damage to the frame. From observing the inside ceiling in the front area of the coach, there is an internal metal frame piece that runs parallel to the roof and sidewall. However, the framework of the sidewalls may be wood. I have not explored enough yet to know.

Using a small, plastic spackling knife, I removed most of the powdery substance from the rubber roof. I then used a cleaning product called "Awesome" and a medium-bristled brush to clean the area including part of the roof that I could reach from the ladder. I used a lot of water to rinse everything off to get a clean surface, knowing that water would be going into the coach. I do have a dehumidifier running in the coach 24/7.

The mid-day sun was out in full force to dry the surfaces.

I then applied some 1.5" wide exterior painter's tape (it is what I have on hand before this afternoon's predicted rain). I have used this to cover up the pink stripe below the windows (that I do not like) and it has survived months of sun and rain.

I also ran tape above the awning over the window. I need to find some proper sealant for this. I believe DAP Dynaflex 230 has been recommended for above windows, etc.

The blue tape is temporary. I need to order materials for the final solution. I also need to get a brush with a long handle to clean all of the roof.



Recaulking once or twice a year is not my idea of fun or enjoyment. Reading lots of discussions on iRV2 leads me to a more permanent solution.

I am considering applying 6" wide EternaBond white tape along the roof edge to cover the roof and most of the metal trim. This will effectively seal any gaps between the rubber and the metal. And, the 6" width will appear as part of the roof from the ground instead of a band of white tape. 6" reaches the top of the curved portion of the roof (see photo).


Rail did mention he just sealed his roof. I do not know what he used. My roof appears to be in good condition visually. It does chalk a bit, but is still white in color.

Suggestions how to maintain this roof?


Thanks again for the suggestions and tips.

[DobeBus]

Originally Posted by cwk

Thanks, guys.



Since water runs downhill (usually), a trip up the ladder this morning revealed an interesting view above the bedroom window in question.







The most obvious is the wide path of the air conditioner's condensation path. I have been running the A/C almost constantly to keep the coach comfortable inside while I work on the interior. Combined with the seasonal heavy afternoon rains in NE Florida, there has been no lack of water supply to the roof.



The "caulk" where the roof meets the sidewall looks like some type of grey putty. When touched with my plastic knife most of it turned into powder. Interestingly, the grey caulk that is on the metal trim is solid and hard to remove. There are cracks in this caulk for quite a few feet along this seam.



This is not the same "caulking" that was used where the front and rear caps meet the roof. That looks like Dicor lap sealant, or equivalent. It is also showing signs of decay, and needs to be addressed as well.



The metal trim/drip rail/gutter is riveted onto the coach. However, in the left side of the photo one can see a bolt head. It looks like someone added a lag-bolt to reattach the trim, and sidewall, to the coach. Hopefully there is no major interior damage to the frame. From observing the inside ceiling in the front area of the coach, there is an internal metal frame piece that runs parallel to the roof and sidewall. However, the framework of the sidewalls may be wood. I have not explored enough yet to know.



Using a small, plastic spackling knife, I removed most of the powdery substance from the rubber roof. I then used a cleaning product called "Awesome" and a medium-bristled brush to clean the area including part of the roof that I could reach from the ladder. I used a lot of water to rinse everything off to get a clean surface, knowing that water would be going into the coach. I do have a dehumidifier running in the coach 24/7.



The mid-day sun was out in full force to dry the surfaces.



I then applied some 1.5" wide exterior painter's tape (it is what I have on hand before this afternoon's predicted rain). I have used this to cover up the pink stripe below the windows (that I do not like) and it has survived months of sun and rain.



I also ran tape above the awning over the window. I need to find some proper sealant for this. I believe DAP Dynaflex 230 has been recommended for above windows, etc.



The blue tape is temporary. I need to order materials for the final solution. I also need to get a brush with a long handle to clean all of the roof.







Recaulking once or twice a year is not my idea of fun or enjoyment. Reading lots of discussions on iRV2 leads me to a more permanent solution.



I am considering applying 6" wide EternaBond white tape along the roof edge to cover the roof and most of the metal trim. This will effectively seal any gaps between the rubber and the metal. And, the 6" width will appear as part of the roof from the ground instead of a band of white tape. 6" reaches the top of the curved portion of the roof (see photo).





Rail did mention he just sealed his roof. I do not know what he used. My roof appears to be in good condition visually. It does chalk a bit, but is still white in color.



Suggestions how to maintain this roof?





Thanks again for the suggestions and tips.

I recently had to fix some delamination in an exterior wall due to the seam between wall and roof exactly where you see m to be having a problem. I removed the aluminum trim and scraped off all the old caulk. Then I ran a 4” wide eternabond tape all the way down from front to back. I didn’t bother reinstalling the aluminum trim as it only covers the seam and now the tape does the job and I didn’t want to put holes in tape with screws that held trim

[cwk]

Originally Posted by DobeBus

I recently had to fix some delamination in an exterior wall due to the seam between wall and roof exactly where you see m to be having a problem. I removed the aluminum trim and scraped off all the old caulk. Then I ran a 4” wide eternabond tape all the way down from front to back. I didn’t bother reinstalling the aluminum trim as it only covers the seam and now the tape does the job and I didn’t want to put holes in tape with screws that held trim

After I temporarily "fixed" the passenger side (see my last post), I walked around to the driver's side of the coach. The late afternoon sun was almost parallel to the side of the coach. I could see the start of some delamination that appears to be from leaks into the seam similar to the pass side leaks.

The location is above the refrigerator and a cabinet above the washer/dryer. So, I doubt I would have seen any leaks inside.

How did you fix the delamination?

The area in question is about 2'x3' or so. I will be removing the refrigerator, and probably that cabinet as well. So, I should have access to the inside wall near the problem area. So, I could do a temporary repair with exterior tape (not Eternabond) until I fix the delam. Then, permanently seal the seam with Eternabond tape.

Regarding the trim: On the pass side the rivets have been replaced by about a dozen screws/bolts in the area of the delam. I have no idea why someone did not caulk this seam. Or, maybe that grey putty-like caulk that turned into powder was the wrong type of caulk.

In my case, I may want to keep the trim in place just to hold the fiberglass sidewall to the roof. Then, add 6" Eternabond tape to overlap the trim completely. The trim on the driver's side is a bit different than the pass side. The pass side appears to have a drip gutter as part of the profile. The driver's side trim is just flat.

Thanks for your comments.

[DobeBus]

Originally Posted by cwk

After I temporarily "fixed" the passenger side (see my last post), I walked around to the driver's side of the coach. The late afternoon sun was almost parallel to the side of the coach. I could see the start of some delamination that appears to be from leaks into the seam similar to the pass side leaks.



The location is above the refrigerator and a cabinet above the washer/dryer. So, I doubt I would have seen any leaks inside.



How did you fix the delamination?



The area in question is about 2'x3' or so. I will be removing the refrigerator, and probably that cabinet as well. So, I should have access to the inside wall near the problem area. So, I could do a temporary repair with exterior tape (not Eternabond) until I fix the delam. Then, permanently seal the seam with Eternabond tape.



Regarding the trim: On the pass side the rivets have been replaced by about a dozen screws/bolts in the area of the delam. I have no idea why someone did not caulk this seam. Or, maybe that grey putty-like caulk that turned into powder was the wrong type of caulk.



In my case, I may want to keep the trim in place just to hold the fiberglass sidewall to the roof. Then, add 6" Eternabond tape to overlap the trim completely. The trim on the driver's side is a bit different than the pass side. The pass side appears to have a drip gutter as part of the profile. The driver's side trim is just flat.



Thanks for your comments.

The delam in mine was behind the shower, so I thought the leak was from the inside. After I cut the shower into three pieces in order to remove it, I found the leak to be from the seam. Because I had the shower out, I did the repair from the inside. The exterior wall is a samwitch of fiberglass foam and Luan. I cut through the luan and foam, and then used the repair resin to glue the wall back together. I had to build a large frame outside to force the wall back into shape while the resin dried I am now in the process of rebuilding the shower with a two piece unit

[cwk]

Originally Posted by DobeBus

The delam in mine was behind the shower, so I thought the leak was from the inside. After I cut the shower into three pieces in order to remove it, I found the leak to be from the seam. Because I had the shower out, I did the repair from the inside. The exterior wall is a sandwich of fiberglass foam and Luan. I cut through the luan and foam, and then used the repair resin to glue the wall back together. I had to build a large frame outside to force the wall back into shape while the resin dried I am now in the process of rebuilding the shower with a two piece unit

Thanks for the reply. This is very helpful!

[cwk]

If you have been following this discussion, you may recall that I plan on converting the front A/C (maybe the rear one also) from a non-ducted unit to a ducted unit. The plan is to add a "drop-ceiling" and include hidden ductwork. The new ceiling will be about 2'' below the existing ceiling. This should allow for ductwork, new wiring for new lighting and other electrical items, and more insulation. I also want to add a wall thermostat.

Currently there are two Coleman A/C units (from 1991) on the roof.

Theoretically the conversion should only require changing the ceiling assemblies and adding a thermostat. That is how Coleman has designed their units.

However, given the age, this is not an option. My calls to Coleman suppliers indicated that the current ceiling assemblies are not backward compatible that many years back. So, I am willing to replace to front roof unit as part of the front remodel. (The bedroom A/C decision will be postponed until a later date.)


I have been doing some research. I prefer to stay with Coleman. I have a Coleman in my 1996 TT (ducted unit) and it is quiet and still working well. I did need to add some refrigerant last year, but that is not bad after 23 years of duty.

The current roof units are low profile and I wish to stay with low profile units.

That narrows it down to a few choices that I still need to make:

1) 13.5K BTU vs. 15K BTU

2) A/C vs. Heat Pump

3) Condensate Pump vs. No Pump (this avoids the constant stream of water from running down the side of the coach)


After reading a number of threads here on iRV2, I am leaning towards a 15K Heat Pump with a Condensate Pump, with a White shroud. This is a Coleman Mach 8 Plus, Ultra-Low Profile unit.

The Coleman part numbers:

Heat Pump: 47024B876
Ceiling Assembly: 8530D735
Digital Thermostat: 9630-3351
Heating Element: 47233-4551



There are small electrical power usage differences between the four different combinations of #1 and #2 above. I don't think my 7K generator will notice the difference.

The coach does have two propane gas furnaces for really cold weather. I am pretty sure I want to include the heat strip in the ceiling assembly to help when the temps get low (below 40F the heat pump is not very effective, if at all). But, that is what the propane furnace is designed to do. The heat strip is only a $62 option, so why not?

One major thought is that a heat pump will give me heat and cool. Whereas the A/C will only give me cool.

Thoughts???

[NHRA225]

Charles, Great to hear from you !
I have the new Mach 8 in my forward unit and it works great and I have the optional heat strip and it works great too ! On cold traveling nights it keeps the front nice and warm-- like 68 deg when the outside temp is close to 30 to 40 deg- off of the Genny .

[Lloyd in S.C.]

Hi CWK!

We have the Coleman units on our coach, heat pump and cond pump. Like them so far. No heat strip.

So my one complaint is in our install, we also have 2 gas furnaces. The complaint is the thermostats are integrated between the gas furnace and the heat pump. If we turn the heat on (and the temp is 5 degrees lower than the settng) the heat pump and the furnace comes on. Wish I could control them individualy. We often sleep with the heat off, get up in the am and turn the heat on and would be fine if only the heat pump came on.

Our propane is built in. When in Yuma we have to make our 37 gallons of propane last 5-6 months.

I recomend the heat pump, with a separate thermostat.

L.