American Coach: Our "New" 1991 American Eagle - A Work in Progress

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by mike91eagle

Well it sure does have one and didn't know they came any other way.

Must have been an option. The American Coach line had many options available.

[cwk]

I need some advice and direction for eliminating doors and a window.


But, first... A sneak peek at the newly-installed LG dual-zone 25KBTU, 240VAC minisplit.

Here is a snapshot of the outdoor unit. This originally was the propane tank bay. ALL propane has been removed from the coach. The unit is "hanging" from the floor above it, as was the propane tank. This bay does not have a floor. I will be adding some expanded metal on the bottom to protect against rocks, small animals, etc. I also will be modifying the door to allow exhaust air from the fan to exit freely. And, the condensate drain lines are not complete.



The minisplit unit has been functional for a few weeks on shore power. I have added a 240VAC split-phase load center panel. This panel will eventually replace the original 240VAC split-phase panel. The diesel generator on-board is 240VAC split-phase. The still-to-come electrical system will also be 240VAC split-phase with solar, LiFEP04 batteries, and appropriate inverters, etc. This will be a nice, quiet, self-sufficient operation.

The outdoor unit (compressor) is an LG LMU240HV, 25KBTU Inverter Heat pump. The indoor units are LG LMN079HVT (7KBTU) and LG LMN159HVT (14KBTU). Both indoor units are ductless, wall-mounted units. Both are the quietest A/C units I have ever owned.

I do not have any power usage numbers at this time. The unit does operate on a 20A 240VAC circuit. Most of the time the unit seems to be just idling. It has cooled well in 80F weather and direct sun. (Yes, it gets hot and cold in NE FL in November.) And, it provided lots of heat when the outside temps were in the 50's. This unit is rated to provide heat down to -4F outside temps, so I am happy.



Now, on to my questions. I am looking for some advice on how to eliminate two doors (hatches/access doors) and possibly one window from the driver's side of the coach. I am including some outside and inside photos of each.

As you will see, the interior of the coach has been stripped down to the bare walls, so interior access is easy. I am nearing the point in time where I need to close up the interior and will no longer have inside access. I will also be adding an inch of extruded polystyrene foam to the interior walls and ceiling. I.e., the pink sheets of foam. Then, a thin layer of plywood and new wallpaper will be installed before new cabinetry is added.

First, I will start with the refrigerator access door. I have already replaced the original louvered door with a solid door (with a key-lock). I would like to eliminate this door but not exactly sure of the materials needed. I am guessing I could frame out the opening with rectangular tubing, add FRP to the exterior, spray-foam the cavity, then add the interior wall. I could use Bondo(?) to bridge the gap between the FRP and the coach's gelcoat side, sand, then paint something to sort-of match. (I say "sort-of" as a temporary solution. Eventually I want to paint the coach exterior. Short term I need something to protect the coach and not look too bad.)


What you are seeing in the interior photo is the replacement door where the refrigerator once lived. The hole in the floor was the opening for the return air ducts for the two propane furnaces that no longer reside in the bay below. The grey-ish tubing is the air vent for the fresh water tank. The pair of white insulated lines are the refrigerant lines that serve the bedroom minisplit indoor unit. Being able to run the minisplit lines behind the new-to-come cabinetry made the installation of a minisplit reasonable.

Yes, there is water damage that came from the former refrigerator's roof vent. Let's just leave it that prior maintenance was not always complete. A new roof is in the future. I have a temporary cover over the coach so the water intrusion has stopped.

You may also notice the dark blue rectangles on the bay door. They are covering the holes for the old propane furnaces to keep the wasps out. And, the scratches on the next bay door where there before me. They need to be addressed, but are much lower priority than the interior.


Next, is the former location of the propane water heater.


The original "opening covering" for this opening was the water heater itself, of course. I did find an appropriate size door that fit the opening; so it is water-tight and locked. Yes, that is the floor of the wardrobe closet. It is being rebuilt as well.


Finally, we have the kitchen window. It will "work" with the new kitchen design, but is in an awkward place and I would rather just eliminate it. Again, there is access to the window on the interior. The preferred plan is to close up the opening before I add the new insulation and wall.




My thoughts on the two doors is that I could simply install the new insulation and walls on the interior, then address the exterior at a later date. The doors can be easily removed from the exterior of the coach (opening the locked doors, of course). However, the window is fastened from the inside. So, if I cover the window with a new wall, future access will be limited.

Side note: The kitchen window is above the kitchen counter and below the upper cabinets. So, one thought is to fabricate a removable back-splash panel that covers the window. Then, in the future, I could remove the panel, eliminate the window, and replace the panel.

I really need to complete the interior remodel sooner rather than later, so I am considering simply covering the two doors with interior walls, and using a removable backsplash to cover the kitchen window. But, before I do that I am reaching out to learn if these ideas may cause major grief at a later date.

I am also thinking, that these modifications are not major undertakings. It is just that I have not done them before. So, I am admitting that I do not know what I do not know.


As always, I look forward to hearing your thoughts, comments, and suggestions.

[mike91eagle]

Due to the fact that the exterior skin of the coach is fiberglass a patch is fairly simple.
1. patch the hole from the inside with thin plywood, leaving it slightly recessed from the outside, maybe 1/4" recessed.

2. sand the area around the hole on the outside feathering it back on the edge so you can layer onto it without making a hump. Be sure the inside edge of the body skin is thin enough for the next step.

3. using fiberglass matt and resin in thin layers, 1 layer at a time with dry time and sanding in between, building the recessed area up the to almost level with the surrounding body skin layer. 2-3 layer should be enough. On this step the patch should get slightly larger overlapping onto the body skin with each layer of glass a little more. Be careful of creating a hump so the end result will be flat and smooth like the rest of the body skin. Using a straight edge here will help. Don't worry if the end result isn't up to your standard you can always sand it off and redo it, practice.

4. bondo to level, smooth and paint.

hope this helps.

Mike

[Gordon Dewald]

Good Morning;
Lots to digest in your future plans. Skimmed through so may have missed the detail. In our coach there is an access door behind the residential fridge. It contains a drain line and valve to enable winterization of the water supply line for the ice maker.

[EB460]

Congrats on the minisplit install. Have been waiting for an update on that for a while as I too will be going the minisplit route. Can't wait to see your completed interior!

Have a few questions for you:
Do you have a duct to the basement for frost protection?
I might have missed it, what are your plans for hot water?
What are your plans for the original furnace bay?

On the wall cover up, mike91eagle has the process for infilling your exterior wall holes well explained. I had a wall hole to cover as well and have found (the hard way) that FRP has a very different expansion rate than fiberglass. My only suggestion would be to find the metal frame surrounding your patch and take the wall panel to that point then feather the edge.

[NHRA225]

Charles
Nice Job on the install --On your door I might search for a Louver style vent for the exhaust fan with closing Louvers.

[cwk]

Thanks, guys.


Mike: Thanks for the fiberglass info. It was along the lines that I was thinking, but I was not sure it was a good way to go. This plan requires painting, but that is in the long-term plan anyways.


Gordon: Never thought about the icemaker line drain. Bev would like a fridge with an icemaker. The fresh water/filter bay will be directly below the fridge, so that may be how we drain that line. Nice catch!


EB460: Thanks. To answer some of your questions:
1) Currently there is no duct to the basement for frost protection. I am considering electric radiant heat in the basement rather than trying to circulate warm air so that it reaches everything down there.
2) I am considering two tankless, electric water heaters. One will be located in the bathroom under the sink that will supply the sink and the shower (only a few feet away). The other will be located in the kitchen base cabinetry that will supply the sink, dishwasher, and washer/dryer. (However, we usually wash clothes in cold water.) Both of these would require minimum flow and very short distances from the heaters to their destinations.This design should:
a) eliminate "waiting for hot water" and wasting precious water,
b) if no hot water is needed, energy will not be wasted keeping stored water,
c) reduce the amount of PEX tubing needed to run long hot water lines (maybe just a little?),
d) free up the space formerly occupied by the 10 gallon propane water heater.
3) The original furnace bay had already housed the water pump and fresh water valves. The plan is to keep the pump there and add a 3-filter water system that will filter all incoming water. Normal water usage will be from the onboard fresh water tank. I am also considering housing a water softener in that bay as well.
Yes, there is are metal frames around each of the compartment door/window openings. I think I would attach some additional rectangular tubing to the existing frame to make a secure backing for the new fiberglass.

Chuck: Thanks for the compliment.
I searched a long time for a louvered vent that I thought would work. I could not find anything suitable. At least, that did not require heavy modification.

However, I also want to be able to operate this while underway. The solution I have designed will open a 24"x24" hole in the bay door that is directly in front of the exhaust fan of the minisplit. I have found 12 ga. flattened, expanded metal in aluminum. I ordered a sample and am pleased with it. The plan is to cut the hole, outline it with 1.5" aluminum channel, then attach the expanded metal on the inside of the door. There is some insulation on the back of the door, so this will set the panel back about 1.5". Aluminum rivets should keep everything in place.

I am also considering making some type of shroud that will set in front of the minisplit that will channel the air directly toward the door opening. The shroud will most likely be attached to the minisplit, not the door, to simplify the design.

Makeup air (intake on the back of the compressor) is from the back and bottom of the bay. It was an open propane tank bay. I am encapsulating the compartment with expanded metal to prevent rocks and animals from damaging the compressor.


Thanks for all of the great feedback.

[WILDEBILL308]

Charles, very interesting project. I will read through all of it as I get time.
Did your old/original refrigerator have a ice maker? Then like Gordon said you probably have a water line in the area behind the refrigerator. If it had a icemaker you should have a 110 receptacle with 2 outlets. The outlet the icemaker was plugged in to should be a inverter to power the icemaker when on propane. Well it was on my last RV.
Bill

[cwk]

Originally Posted by WILDEBILL308

Charles, very interesting project. I will read through all of it as I get time.
Did your old/original refrigerator have a ice maker? Then like Gordon said you probably have a water line in the area behind the refrigerator. If it had a icemaker you should have a 110 receptacle with 2 outlets. The outlet the icemaker was plugged in to should be a inverter to power the icemaker when on propane. Well it was on my last RV.
Bill

Thanks for taking the time to read through.

The original fridge was an RV propane fridge. The ice-maker was a completely separate electric compressor unit located under a cabinet on the other side of the coach. The ice-maker did leak, so I am guessing that someone did not winterize it properly at some point. Both the fridge and the icemaker were delivered to the county recycle for scrap.

I found other signs of freezing water damage as well. Since we are doing a complete remodel, all of the old plumbing has been removed. Fresh water supply lines are being replaced with PEX-A tubing. Drain lines will include HEPVO valves instead of P-traps (water should not accumulate and freeze and/or evaporate and leak bad air backwards).

I am considering not including an icemaker in the future residential fridge. Partly because of the freezing issue. Partly because of the freezer space that would be occupied by an icemaker. Moreover, DW approves of using ice cube trays. We grew up with ice cube trays, so we could think of it as being nostalgic.

[guardrail53]

"I am considering not including an icemaker in the future residential fridge. Partly because of the freezing issue. Partly because of the freezer space that would be occupied by an icemaker. Moreover, DW approves of using ice cube trays. We grew up with ice cube trays, so we could think of it as being nostalgic."

Charles, when I bought Mona, the PO included a U-Line under cabinet ice maker that was original to Mona, in the basement, and she had a brand new unit in her place under the counter. He told me that they used the icemaker a lot and it quit working on one of their trip to Maine, So when they got home, he ordered a new one, and when he went to take out the old one, he discovered it had simply came unplugged? Since he had the new one, he installed it, and put the old one in the basement! Soooooo, If the old one is still in my sons pole barn, you are welcome to it! It may have suffered the same fate as yours, I'm not sure, but if it is still in the attic, you can have it!
They now make counter top ice makers that work great, produce a lot of ice quickly, so that is a option also!
We are planning a trip back this summer, so I will check for you when I get to my son's! Rail!

[Gordon Dewald]

Good Morning;
Considering all things and having a small amount of experience I would opt for the ice maker in the fridge. We are constantly using ice, especially when the weather is warm. There is a convenience with being able to simply push the button in place of filling trays, finding level spots until they freeze, etc. First world problem.

In my opinion winterizing the ice maker mainly involves clearing the line from the source to the ice maker. Hence the door which exposes a t valve. The purpose of the ice maker is to freeze water so whether the ice maker is cooled by the fridge or cold weather should make no difference. I did the air in lines followed by pink as extra insurance to avoid any future damage. I am working on a method to avoid pink in the ice maker as it took a while to clear when de winterizing.

I found the washer to be more of an issue and I believe is more critical and susceptible to freezing damage. I followed the winterizing instructions included in our coach manual and it appears to be effective.

One other note. We have several filters at various locations in the coach. They all have easy access. Missing a filter during winterizing is not recommended!! The filter for the drinking tap is $65. It has an auto bypass so I put it in a zip lock filled with water and stored in the fridge.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

One other note. We have several filters at various locations in the coach. They all have easy access. Missing a filter during winterizing is not recommended!! The filter for the drinking tap is $65. It has an auto bypass so I put it in a zip lock filled with water and stored in the fridge.

Having reread the post I would like to clarify I store the filters in the house fridge.

Fortunately we have been able to stay out of cold weather for the most part. Covid required that the coach be winterized. We returned last year and the temperature dropped briefly to -2F. I left the heat on and added a couple small space heaters to the water bay.

[WILDEBILL308]

I have a 2 door side by side Whirlpool and have plenty of freezer space. I also have ice and water in the door. I do like that part. I can't see me giving that up.
Bill

[cwk]

Originally Posted by WILDEBILL308

I have a 2 door side by side Whirlpool and have plenty of freezer space. I also have ice and water in the door. I do like that part. I can't see me giving that up.
Bill

Bill, How wide is that Whirlpool?