RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Fleetwood Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-20-2020, 09:45 PM   #1
Member
 
Goebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Libertyville Il.
Posts: 39
Power issues, no shore power, no generator power. Only some when engine running

Good evening.
I have a 2008 Fleetwood Excursion with a 50 amp Smart Energy Management System model 900.
Batteries were super weak when i went to start the coach today. Tossed a charger on the main batteries and started it up. House batteries are very low. Brought it home and plugged it in. Keeping in mind the unit is kept plugged in to a 30 amp at my office.
Had it plugged in and when using some lights and a vacuum, the power shut off. Thought it was my outlet but that had full power still.
Here is where it gets more odd. I started the coach and the display panel was up at 15 with things on and the electric hot water heater fired up. Then again things shut off. Generator shut off and no power at all.
Started the thing up and some power came back on.
Read that i may have too reset breakers in EMS distribution panel. Did that but they were not tripped.
I am not great with electric and not real sure how to trouble shoot this problem.
I know my house batteries are super low. Maybe that is the culprit? Just odd that i can run the generator and engine at the same time but as soon as i turn the engine off, give it a minute then the generator shuts off.

Any thoughts or advice on where to start?

Thanks you in advance!

Goebs.
__________________
2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40x
Goebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-20-2020, 10:16 PM   #2
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,073
The engine supplies DC from the alternator. With things up and running the generator battery which may be on the house batteries is getting voltage from your engine alternator. That DC I mentioned.

Shutting the engine off removes that needed DC that was getting to the house batteries to keep the generator electronics satisfied.


Your house batteries are critically low and with any load are probably even worse. Your generator should be supplying AC (house current) to your onboard charger but something in that food change is not working.

Could be a simple breaker popped but you will have to follow the path yourself.

If you have a decent portable battery charger, get it on the house batteries and once you have the generator running(by starting your engine) plug the charger into one of the outlets powered by the generator. See if it continues to run then.
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2016 Ford F150 Limited V6 with Ready Brake
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 12:13 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
RV_Guy_Mark's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Good evening.
I have a 2008 Fleetwood Excursion with a 50 amp Smart Energy Management System model 900.
Batteries were super weak when i went to start the coach today. Tossed a charger on the main batteries and started it up.Goebs
.
I don't have a Fleetwood so yours may vary a bit from my Newmar. This is the vehicle Battery, should be seperate except when vehicle being driven. Not sure but, the vehicle battery may not be tied in with the SEM 900.

How old is the vehicle battery , has it been sitting for some time? Is there any load on the battery, alarm system. I am nott real familiar with the Smart Energy Managemet System 900.

LINK

The generator may shut off if it is fueled from the main vehicle fuel tank and you are getting low on fuel, it will shut off at around 1/4 tank to prevent you from being stranded have used all your fuel camping.

The generatator could shut off if you are low on generator engine oil and the low oil pressure sensor is detecting low oil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
House batteries are very low. Brought it home and plugged it in. Keeping in mind the unit is kept plugged in to a 30 amp at my office. .
Remember a 30 AMP shore power hookup is 120 VAC and is only sending power to half the RV breaker panel breakers, a 50 AMP Shore Power is a 240 VAC hookup and is sending two 120 VAC circuit to both sides of your breaker panel.

How old are the house batteries, what type are they? 6 Volt golf cart batteries? If so check the water level in batteries, charging can cause the water to evaporate and drop below the plates and Sulfation occurs also when a lead acid battery is deprived of a full charge. Also if the batteries are getting older than 4 years old and have dropped below 11 volts several times they may be getting to end of life and amp hours are weak and don't hold a charge long and can't get up to full power. Plenty of YouTube Videos on discussing batteries.

Be real careful checking these, wear gloves and safety googles, if low you can add distilled water, don't over fill. If you connectors are not clean, use a battery terminal cleaning tool (uner $3 at Harbor Frieght or Home Depot)

make sure you blow away any hydrogen gas that may be around battery before removing cables and causing a spark.

If you are not comfortable working on this stuff, hire a qualified technician.
If you are handy and there are plenty of DIY videos to show you how to safely read voltages then proceed your self at your own risk.

Also Lithium batteries are a different animal and even these batteries can be destroyed by improper charging, again refer to YouTube videos and internet articles.

Do you have a Multi Meter to read voltage, they run around $10-$20 and can read AC and DC voltage. DC voltage off your batteries. This meter will also come in handy trouble shooting meaasuring voltages off your coach and generator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Had it plugged in and when using some lights and a vacuum, the power shut off. Thought it was my outlet but that had full power still.
.
You may have drawn too many watts for the circuit or system and tripped something or voltage dropped which would make amperage go up drawing more current. Normally would pop a breaker, but maybe your SEMS 900 did something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Here is where it gets more odd. I started the coach and the display panel was up at 15 with things on and the electric hot water heater fired up. Then again things shut off. Generator shut off and no power at all. .
Providing your generator is not shutting off from low fuel or oil, start the generator with no load, all breakers off, you should have every off whenever you start the generator, this will prevent low voltage when starting form blowing out your generator rectifier or frying appliances and electronics.

Again if you really don't know what you are doing get a qualified technician, electricity can kill you. Never touch live 120 VAC or 240 VAC with bar hand.
If using probes off meter be careful. Meter must be on AC setting and depending on voltage you are reading have meter set for propper voltage level.

In 120 VAC and 240 VAC house wiring

Black is Hot and White is Neutral - You should read 120 VAC between these two wires

Red is Hot and White is Neutral - You should read 120 VAC between these two wires

Between Red and Black you will read 240 VAC on 50 AMP Shore Power
You generator may or may not produce 240 VAC
depending on generator design. Some put out two 120 VAC circuit but they
are both the same phase so you will read zero volts between Red and Black.

Note: 30 Amp shore power will only have one of the 120 VAC circuit live
depending on wiring it will either be Back to white or Red to White, not both.

Your Smart Electrical System figures this out and will only allow something to run. Read your documentation.

Some generators will have test points for probes, others don't and you would take readings off wiring leading to Automatic Transfer switch.

Again, if you are no comfortable doing this and don't know what you are doing testing voltage, then don't and get a qualified electrician because you can die from touching electric at hese voltages. I can't stress enough be careful, attempt at your own risk, if you feel you want to proceed, educate yourself, watch some DIY videos on how to use a volt meter to test electric circuits safely.

I used to be an IBEW electronics/electrical/communications technician and a Telecom engineer. I do this myself and have been trained how to do measurements safely. Watch some videos how to, wearing rubber gloves and safety goggles never hurts. Never work in the rain or if you are wet. Proceed at your own risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post

Started the thing up and some power came back on.
Read that i may have too reset breakers in EMS distribution panel. Did that but they were not tripped.
I am not great with electric and not real sure how to trouble shoot this problem.
I know my house batteries are super low. Maybe that is the culprit? Just odd that i can run the generator and engine at the same time but as soon as i turn the engine off, give it a minute then the generator shuts off.

Any thoughts or advice on where to start?

Thanks you in advance!

Goebs.
.
Making sure you have good batteries is a good idea.
LINK

Hopefully this will point you is some direction to start at.

Good Luck.
Cheers, Mark
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire
Tinkering On This Old RV
RV_Guy_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 05:36 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 24,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV_Guy_Mark View Post
I



Remember a 30 AMP shore power hookup is 120 VAC and is only sending power to half the RV breaker panel breakers, a 50 AMP Shore Power is a 240 VAC hookup and is sending two 120 VAC circuit to both sides of your breaker panel.

How old are the house batteries, what type are they? 6 Volt golf cart batteries? If so check the water level in batteries, charging can cause the water to evaporate and drop below the plates and Sulfation occurs also when a lead acid battery is deprived of a full charge. Also if the batteries are getting older than 4 years old and have dropped below 11 volts several times they may be getting to end of life and amp hours are weak and don't hold a charge long and can't get up to full power. Plenty of YouTube Videos on discussing batteries.

Be real careful checking these, wear gloves and safety googles, if low you can add distilled water, don't over fill. If you connectors are not clean, use a battery terminal cleaning tool (uner $3 at Harbor Frieght or Home Depot)

make sure you blow away any hydrogen gas that may be around battery before removing cables and causing a spark.

If you are not comfortable working on this stuff, hire a qualified technician.
If you are handy and there are plenty of DIY videos to show you how to safely read voltages then proceed your self at your own risk.



Do you have a Multi Meter to read voltage, they run around $10-$20 and can read AC and DC voltage. DC voltage off your batteries. This meter will also come in handy trouble shooting meaasuring voltages off your coach and generator.




You may have drawn too many watts for the circuit or system and tripped something or voltage dropped which would make amperage go up drawing more current. Normally would pop a breaker, but maybe your SEMS 900 did something.






Note: 30 Amp shore power will only have one of the 120 VAC circuit live
depending on wiring it will either be Back to white or Red to White, not both.



Some generators will have test points for probes, others don't and you would take readings off wiring leading to Automatic Transfer switch.





Making sure you have good batteries is a good idea.
LINK

Hopefully this will point you is some direction to start at.

Good Luck.
Cheers, Mark
Long post but starts off wrong.

With the 30 amp to 50 amp adaptor, both legs are feed and you are getting power to all circuit breakers.

The adaptor connects the single 120 volt line to both 50 amp lines. It has nothing to do with any components in the RV.

I know your trying to help but you need to offer factual information.Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture%2B_2020-03-21-07-34-01.jpeg
Views:	7
Size:	41.2 KB
ID:	278583
twinboat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 06:43 AM   #5
Member
 
Goebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Libertyville Il.
Posts: 39
Good morning. Thank you for some great feedback. I will study it more after coffee...

One big puzzling question is where might there be a fuse or what could cause even the shore power to not work. I know house batteries are low but confused why the shore power wont work.

And I am full of diesel.

Hoping to find a local source to replace batteries but this lock down may put a hold on that.
__________________
2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40x
Goebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 07:05 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: payson, az
Posts: 700
if you are not getting 120 vac from either shore power or generator power look for something that is common to both. they become common at the power exit cable from the transfer switch. that cable will most likely run directly from the transfer switch to the main breaker of the distribution panel unless you have an EMS device installed in this cable (not common but has been done). with all power off pull the cover of the distribution panel and check that the main connections are clean and tight. then do the same with the transfer switch looking carefully at the terminal of the exist cable. more than one post has been made about loose / burnt / corroded power connections.
bigchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 09:33 AM   #7
Member
 
Goebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Libertyville Il.
Posts: 39
Just unplugged from the house. Turned off both batteries.

House batteries are showing 8 volts so going to simply replace them. Should get new ones after 2:00 today. Thatís is a start.

Thinking of pulling panel to see if there is a fuse behind. Will check all wires to be sure all is clean and snug.

After these steps, I will begin more testing. Not going to go too deep without help as I think your advice is well taken on the safety aspect.
__________________
2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40x
Goebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 06:31 PM   #8
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,073
Hopefully I'm not too late but take pictures before you remove any cables. Be sure to remove the negative terminals from all banks of batteries and disconnect shoreline.

Wear safety goggles of course..
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2016 Ford F150 Limited V6 with Ready Brake
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2020, 03:18 PM   #9
Member
 
Goebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Libertyville Il.
Posts: 39
Partial update.
I pulled panel at rear and confirmed the fuse for the EMS was fine.
House batteries are now replaced and reading full again.
Moved RV back to office and plugged it in to the 30 amp pole I have there.
Will go back this week to see if things are powering up correctly again,, but earn plugged in, the power management board read 5. Hope this was all due to dead house batteries.
Be back and thanks you all for great feedback!
Goebs
__________________
2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40x
Goebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2020, 03:27 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
cavie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Good morning. Thank you for some great feedback. I will study it more after coffee...

One big puzzling question is where might there be a fuse or what could cause even the shore power to not work. I know house batteries are low but confused why the shore power wont work.

And I am full of diesel.

Hoping to find a local source to replace batteries but this lock down may put a hold on that.
There would be no confusion if you used a volt meter and checked the voltage at the ped then worked you way all the way back thru every connection to the breaker box main
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
cavie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2020, 04:11 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
cavie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Partial update.
I pulled panel at rear and confirmed the fuse for the EMS was fine.
House batteries are now replaced and reading full again.
Moved RV back to office and plugged it in to the 30 amp pole I have there.
Will go back this week to see if things are powering up correctly again,, but earn plugged in, the power management board read 5. Hope this was all due to dead house batteries.
Be back and thanks you all for great feedback!
Goebs

What fuse? The EMS does not use a fuse! what fuse did you check?? and what did you check it with?
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
cavie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2020, 09:34 AM   #12
Member
 
Goebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Libertyville Il.
Posts: 39
There is a fuse on a control board if you pull the breaker panel. I forget if it is a 3 or 5 amp fuse. Hidden in the panel a bit but clearly there. it has power coming to both sides of the use

as soon as time permits, I will dig back into things to see if I have correct power. hoping the dead house batteries was the culprit but clearly just being optimistic.
__________________
2008 Fleetwood Excursion 40x
Goebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 07:03 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
cavie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
There is a fuse on a control board if you pull the breaker panel. I forget if it is a 3 or 5 amp fuse. Hidden in the panel a bit but clearly there. it has power coming to both sides of the use

as soon as time permits, I will dig back into things to see if I have correct power. hoping the dead house batteries was the culprit but clearly just being optimistic.
Fuse on what control; board. Are you talking about the converter???

Pictures would help
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
cavie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 07:06 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
cavie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goebs View Post
Good evening.
I have a 2008 Fleetwood Excursion with a 50 amp Smart Energy Management System model 900.
Batteries were super weak when i went to start the coach today. Tossed a charger on the main batteries and started it up. House batteries are very low. Brought it home and plugged it in. Keeping in mind the unit is kept plugged in to a 30 amp at my office.
Had it plugged in and when using some lights and a vacuum, the power shut off. Thought it was my outlet but that had full power still.
Here is where it gets more odd. I started the coach and the display panel was up at 15 with things on and the electric hot water heater fired up. Then again things shut off. Generator shut off and no power at all.
Started the thing up and some power came back on.
Read that i may have too reset breakers in EMS distribution panel. Did that but they were not tripped.
I am not great with electric and not real sure how to trouble shoot this problem.
I know my house batteries are super low. Maybe that is the culprit? Just odd that i can run the generator and engine at the same time but as soon as i turn the engine off, give it a minute then the generator shuts off.

Any thoughts or advice on where to start?

Thanks you in advance!

Goebs.
There is no such thing as an EMS distribution panel. Pictures please.
__________________
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BHS. Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale MA. Retired Master Electrician. All Motor homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor homes.
cavie is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine, generator, power, shore power



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want my generator on/off switch to illuminate only when generator is running FloridaCanuk RV Systems & Appliances 17 08-23-2018 04:43 PM
Generator only starts with shore power KEH RV Systems & Appliances 10 06-28-2016 06:10 AM
Generator only starts on shore power Lebjdi Class A Motorhome Discussions 4 04-20-2015 04:56 PM
Generator Auto Start .. is there one for loss of shore power only? ctcamper RV Systems & Appliances 2 03-03-2011 02:30 PM
Engine Running & Shore Power? Dave1956 MH-General Discussions & Problems 13 01-03-2011 07:01 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.