Community Forums

hocuspocus11 · 03-29-2012, 09:18 PM

We purchased our used coach from LazyDays in Tampa about a year ago. At the time it had about 22,000 miles on it, and currently is has about 28,400 miles on it. It is built on a Workhorse W20 chassis.

Since shortly after taking ownership, I''ve checked the house batteries (two 6-volt deep-cycle in series) periodically and they almost always will have some amount of water sitting on top one battery is more prevalentin this regard than the other one. I clean/dry off the top(s), check the liquid level in the batteries, and add distilled water as necessary. The converter is a World Friendship Co. WF-9845, 45 amp model.

I have checked the batteries and the converter, with the following
results:
Each battery reads about 6.2 to 6.3 volts (when the leads are
disconnected), and about 12.6 volts in series. The converter output,
when disconnected from the coach wiring, is about 13.9 volts. The
reverse polarity fuses have not been blown.

On a recent camping outing, after about 2 days of being hooked to 120 volt campground power, everything cut off and checking the house batteries, they were reading only about 9.4 volts. I cranked the coach''s engine, and the house battery voltage initially came up to about 11.6 volts. When I checked the house batteries, there was no sign of overcharging (which I presume is why I previously noticed water sitting on top of the battery). I believe my problem to be a defective converter, but would like the benefit of anyone's input.

If I do replace the unit, can I upgrade to a 55 amp unit? I understand my current unit is a dual-output converter can I upgrade to what I understand is a better type unit, that is a single-output converter?

Any help or guidance anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Wanabee FTer · 03-29-2012, 09:53 PM

Hi hocuspocus11 and welcome to irv2!

The first thing I would recommend to do is take the batteries in to have them load tested. Make sure they are fully charged first (Use an automotive battery charger) while they are out clean all the cable connections.

A hydrometer test will help test the charge level of each cell, but will not tell if you have a shorted cell, especially if it has an intermittent short. (temperature sensative)

The WFCO converter you have should be adequate for 2-6 volt batteries if it is working properly. It is a good 3 stage converter, the only advantage to replacing with a larger unit would be to charge your battery bank faster.

I like the PD9260 I installed on my mh mainly because with the optional charge pendent, I have total control over the 3 stages of battery charge available. I went from 45 to 60 because I added more batteries and need the extra amps to charge them. I would think if you are going to stay with 2-6 volt batteries, a 45 amp charger would be fine.

To check for proper operation of the converter follow the troubleshooting procedures in the WF9800 owners manual

Dogpatch · 03-29-2012, 10:47 PM

You don't say the age of your coach, only the mileage. It sounds like your converter is the culprit to me as well.
I agree with John that a 45amp charger would be adequate for the two batteries. When topping up your batteries, make sure you use distilled water.

hocuspocus11 · 03-31-2012, 08:50 AM

Thanks for the input.
To answer a few of the questions you raised - it is a 2007, built in late 2006. I always use distilled water whenever I add to any vehicle battery.
You stated that a 60 amp converter would just charge the batteries quicker that a 45 amp converter. The coach has 30 amp service, not 50 amp, since it has a energy management system to limit the draw to 30 amp. Will I run into any problems with a 60 amp converter drawing too much for this system (i.e., should I just stay with the 45 amp size)?
I plan to charge the 6-volt batteries today and have them load tested to try to eliminate that variable.

Wanabee FTer · 03-31-2012, 09:13 AM

On page 3 of the WFCO owners manual it states the power requirements for 120 volt operation. For the 45 amp unit you have, it requires 8.4 amps of 120 volts. For the 55 amp unit it will require 9.9 amps of 120 volts. There is very little difference in 120 volt current demands between the two.

It's the output at 12 volts that shows a considerable difference. The thing that will determine if you can benefit from a larger converter is the 12 volt wire gauge going from the converter to the battery. Voltage drop is a huge problem in 12 volt systems so large diameter copper wire needs to be used in certain cases. See this link for more info about 12 volt systems before you decide to do any upgrades.

wb7auk · 03-31-2012, 09:36 AM

Until one charges the batteries up to a full charge and load test them after letting them sit awhile you can not find the problem.
When doing the above each battery by it's self needs to be done.
If they pass then hook the system up and check the voltage of the batteries with the
converter off. Then turn it on and see if you see a increase in voltage it should be between 13.8 and 14.2 maybe a little higher. This does not give the converter a clean bill of health unless one uses a volt and amp test meter to make sure the converter is working correct but will get a lot of unknowns answered.

garym114 · 03-31-2012, 09:53 AM

The maximum charging rate for GC2 batteries is one tenth of the amp hour rating. One tenth of the normal 220 amp hour rating is 22 amps. If you go higher than a 45 amp converter you will exceed the recommended charging rate.
There is a reason you have a converter sized at 45 amps.

wa8yxm · 03-31-2012, 10:33 AM

WFCO is made in China. They have been known to fail but you have not provided enough info.. alas, to test some converters you need to provide a "Battery simulator" (This is easier than it sounds) since they will give false readings on a volt meter. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS THE CASE WITH THE WFCO.

An ammeter is useful too,

As for overcharging: Workhorse usually uses GM engines and parts.. GM runs their alternators a bit on the high side.

wb7auk · 04-01-2012, 05:32 AM

45, 55, or 125 amp makes no difference. the charger part of this unit should only charge that required to bring the batteries up to full charge most want to be programed
on what type of battery you are using. NOW the amp rating of the charger left over
is the reserve power that you can use to run what ever is in the MH while the batteries are charging and after. The best systems use a 3 stage charge approach which will charge good batteries up faster than the one stage can and are better on the batteries

.

Bob and Inga · 04-01-2012, 06:20 AM

Junk the WFCO and go with the PD9260 and you can't go wrong. On another forum we see lots of posts about the WFCO's failing. Sometimes within a year of new. We replaced the 75 amp WFCO and house batteries in our '06 in the summer of '10 with the PD9280 and have hardly ever had to add water since. And I never see water on top of the batteries as I did with the WFCO.

Bob

wb7auk · 04-01-2012, 07:25 AM

Remember voltage is the force and amps is the amount. Two 6 volt batteries in series as stated above would have a max charge rate of around 44 amps. But by them selves you are limited to 22 amps. In a 4 battery set up that we also see used the charge rate would be 88 amps max. One hopes any of these max charge rates do not take place as it would indicate battery trouble. This is why they put in larger systems to be able to handle the amp (current) demands if everything in the MH is
being run at one time and still have some safety reserve.

Wanabee FTer · 04-01-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wb7auk

45, 55, or 125 amp makes no difference. the charger part of this unit should only charge that required to bring the batteries up to full charge most want to be programed
on what type of battery you are using. NOW the amp rating of the charger left over
is the reserve power that you can use to run what ever is in the MH while the batteries are charging and after.
.

Not true for the PD9200 series of converters like the one I installed.
The following is a reprint from Progressive Dynamics website under FAQ;

What is the maximum rate my Converter/Charger will re-charge my battery?
The 9200 Series and 9100 Series electronic Converter/Chargers can charge the battery at their maximum current output rating, provided there are no other 12-volt systems operating and if the battery is discharged enough to accept this charge rate. Progressive Dynamics presently manufacturers six different models of the 9100 series and four models of the 9200 series power converters as shown in the chart below. The last two digits of the part number indicate its maxim current charging capability in amps.

Maximum Output & Charging Rate 9200 Series Model 9100 Series Model
30-amps PD9130, 40-amps PD9140A, 45-amps PD9245C PD9145A, 60-amps PD9260C PD9160A, 70-amps PD9270 PD9170, 80-amps PD9280 PD9180

The PD9200 series will devote the total rated amperage to the batteries if they are discharged enough to need it, then amps will be shed from charging as power requirements inside the coach are added.

Not sure about other 3 stage converter manufactures such as WFCO, I have not research them.

wa8yxm · 04-01-2012, 06:45 PM

What you found for PDI is more or less common among the 3-stage.. I like the qualifiers. And will add one more "And the wire can haul the amprage".

On my coach for example the converter is a PDI 9180 with charge wizard, that's 80 amps, but it is at the extreme rear, driver's side, the wire runs up to the middle of the coach fuse block, and from there to the battery control system (Front, driver's side) and from there back to the steps (Passanger/entry side, about 6 feet back)

It's a 37'7" rig so that is over 50 feet of wire. No way will it haul 80 amps that far.

MOST 3 stage converter should be able to push up to their rating, Of course if you are sucking 20 amps for lights, furnace, control power and the like, That is going to "Come off the top" as it were

Heck I have a radio that can suck dang near that much. (20 amps)

wb7auk · 04-01-2012, 08:13 PM

Pay close attention to these little qualifiers they put in there they have meaning. They set conditions that would be very rarely met if at all. Take the standard 4 six volt systems we commonly see they are rated well over 150 amp for 2 hours far beyond this chargers ability. So their first line is faults on it's face that is not to say they are not good charges just do not believe all the sales smoke and mirrors.
What I posted is correct sorry.