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Old 08-02-2021, 11:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steves86ta View Post
Hi All, Just bought my parents 1997 Bounder 35' Class A with the intention to use it as a boondocking/desert camper.

The AC's work great however i am having difficulties running them at the same time.

the unit has an Onan 5000 generator with about 950 hours on it. I can run the AC's individually and run anything else in the motorhome i would like to.

however if i turn them both on high and/or Auto the rear will kick on then shed immediately. If i start the front on High, wait a minute or two then start the rear on Low it will run both just fine, as long as i dont turn the rear on auto or high. and i dont have anything else on besides maybe the front TV.
Going to assume your Intellitec ECC (Electronic Climate Control) is having problems.

With that said, there is nothing to waste, by digging into the wiring yourself, and see if everything is wired up correctly.


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Originally Posted by steves86ta View Post
I did do a lot of research and am trying to troubleshoot this thing, my understanding is that the rear AC should be wired to the 20 amp feed from the generator and the front AC is wired to the 30 amp feed from the generator.
Our 1996 Flair does have the dual roof A/C units, and a Marquis 5000 watt generator. A diagram of how it was originally wired is posted below. Our coach did not come with a ECC unit.

Now,....what wiring Fleetwood needed to change (if anything) to run a ECC, I can not answer. Hopefully someone else can answer this question.

I can verify that our coach's generator (30A) is wired to the front A/C (through the main 120V panel), and the (20A) is wired directly to the rear A/C.

Please Note: Our RV (originally) used the Front/Rear A/C selector switch (while on 30A shore power & Generator wiring) to control which A/C received power.

We have since upgraded the entire RV to 50A service. We can run both A/C units on Shore, or the 5KW generator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steves86ta View Post
Im starting to wonder what to check and or look into, because i think that both AC's are pulling from the 30 amp feed and for some reason the rear is not getting its dedicated 20 amp feed. Being that i can run both if i stagger start times and i turn all electric devices up until it is started and running. However if i turn the inverter on, the rear will shed immediately.
You are probably going to need a wiring diagram for the A/C 120V wiring to verify, that how your coach is wired is correct. I'm going to assume that Fleetwood did it correctly when it was built.

You state Inverter, this is the unit that converts Battery 12V DC to 120V A/C. Assuming it was wired correctly as well. But it should not cause the rear A/C to stop, unless the converted is sending 120V A/C to the A/C.
Again, I would doubt this. The older inverted systems were not intended to power roof air conditioners.

I'm going to assume you are referring to the Converter. Converts 120V A/C to 12V DV power to run your interior 12V needs and charge your 12V house batteries. The converter should be wired to the 30A side of shore and generator power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steves86ta View Post
So, my basic understanding is that there should be a "relay" or "box" that routes the power from the 20 amp feed to the rear air, where is this box and is there a way to test it? What does it look like so i can try to locate it?

It appears to me, that with both the AC's on i am pulling pretty close to 30 amps and the ECC kicks in and sheds with any additional load.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance!
Hopefully a ECC owner can answer this for you.

If you do find that your ECC is the problem (and your wiring is all correct), here is a resource to replace the ECC. From what I understand the company who made the system is out of business.

Waiters ECC - Replacement for the Intellitec ECC - 1999 Southwind 35S

You may want to check out this thread as well.
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f107/col...cc-378681.html
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:15 PM   #30
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Thank you all for the info.

I Think i have narrowed it down to the Relay Delay Box that Intellitec puts in these things, by design it should switch the Generator power to one of the AC's when it senses power on both "Shorepower" and the "generator 20amp" lines.

I will have a buddy come by and help me do some voltage/ohm testing on the wiring, but it is all factory and never been messed with. We have no reason to suspect its not wired how it should have been from the factory, unless someone changed the wiring in the first two years of it's life.

In the meantime i added some Supco SPP6 hard start cap's to the AC units, they do seem to have helped out a bit. It is running both AC's currently but its also not as hot today as it was over the weekend.

I will follow up when i get more info or do more diagnostics. I really appreciate everyone's help with this matter and look forward to more posts and info moving forward while we make this unit our own.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steves86ta View Post
Thank you all for the info.

I Think i have narrowed it down to the Relay Delay Box that Intellitec puts in these things, by design it should switch the Generator power to one of the AC's when it senses power on both "Shorepower" and the "generator 20amp" lines.

I will have a buddy come by and help me do some voltage/ohm testing on the wiring, but it is all factory and never been messed with. We have no reason to suspect its not wired how it should have been from the factory, unless someone changed the wiring in the first two years of it's life.

In the meantime i added some Supco SPP6 hard start cap's to the AC units, they do seem to have helped out a bit. It is running both AC's currently but its also not as hot today as it was over the weekend.


I will follow up when i get more info or do more diagnostics. I really appreciate everyone's help with this matter and look forward to more posts and info moving forward while we make this unit our own.

good to hear some progress..
I have used the the same hard starts as they help, not as good as a soft start but less than 1/10 the cost..

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Old 08-04-2021, 10:29 AM   #32
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Just a quick update - i had emailed intellitec for some help troubleshooting the box.

They provided some quick steps to help identify

The Relay Delay box should have power coming in from the 20amp breaker on the generator and the 30a breaker on the breaker panel

Trip the 30a breaker on the breaker panel and see if the AC shuts off. If it does then you need to verify that power is coming in to the box from the generator's 20a breaker.

If you have power coming into the box and the 30a circuit breaker kills one of the AC's then the box is not switching over as it should be.

Also - on these units you have one breaker labeled as AC and the other as ECC - these will each control one of the AC units
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Old 08-04-2021, 06:32 PM   #33
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Well the saga continues...

I had some time this afternoon and went over to storage during the heat of the day (107 at the time). and tried to do some more troubleshooting/testing.

first of all - i verified the box is not switching power like it should be thanks to the steps provided to me. I will order a new one.

However With the heat of the day and both AC's on when the rear AC compressor turned on it actually stalled out the generator. I made sure nothing else electric was on and tried again. When the rear ac cycled - generator stalled.

I had my volt meter so i plugged it into an outlet in the kitchen and figured i would try to see what was happening with the voltage in the unit.

i took a couple of videos - but i think that these AC units are just old and need to be replaced. Especially the rear unit.

With nothing else on, when the rear unit's compressor turns on the voltage in the unit drops down to 95 volts but actually takes a little bit of time to recover. Here is a video (please note the video speed is slowed down to see the numbers better) but you can see the voltage drop to 95, then slowly make its way back up to 130 as the generator adjusts to the load


so i repeated the test with the front AC unit and the results are quite different. When the Front AC cycles, the voltage drops down as well to around 98, but it recovers MUCH faster almost instantly. Heres a video -



Would it be worth investigating the AC unit further or just looking for a replacement at this point? I would like something that would be a direct replacement. The part number of the rear unit is 7332B897 which of course is outdated.

Would you look for something that will be a bolt in since its just the rear or would it be better to do a non ducted setup?
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Old 08-05-2021, 04:04 AM   #34
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Sort of my senario with the older 15K coleman , I have it worked well, I did replace all caps and a hard start.. It would run well most of the time.. but then spike upon a restart that would stall genny or trip even a 20 or 30A on shore... I was told the compressor is tired..
And you have 2 units ...

I am sure soft starts may help and work but adding two is almost the cost of one new AC...
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibe View Post
Sort of my senario with the older 15K coleman , I have it worked well, I did replace all caps and a hard start.. It would run well most of the time.. but then spike upon a restart that would stall genny or trip even a 20 or 30A on shore... I was told the compressor is tired..
And you have 2 units ...

I am sure soft starts may help and work but adding two is almost the cost of one new AC...
Yeah my thoughts too. Think the rear is just tired for whatever reason

Gonna look into replacing it
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:47 AM   #36
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Generally, hard starting (assuming adequate time elapses between shut off to restarting) can only be caused by: defective run and/or start capacitor (if present), start relay (if present) or failing compressor. Less likely if the refrigerant lines are plugged pressures won’t equalize and these older piston-type compressors can’t start easily. If the latter were the case though, you either wouldn’t have cooling at all when it does run, or cooling would be drastically reduced. So the short version make sure the run capacitor is good, start components are good (which you’ve done by adding the SPP6) and as long as you have adequate voltage at the compressor, if you still have start up trouble, as a rule you can condemn the compressor.

You might try testing voltage at some point prior to the delay relay box before condemning your AC unit. Because you could have defective contacts on the contractor causing tremendous voltage drop under load. I’d be tempted to run a good source of 110 volt directly to the AC and see what happens, just to avoid condemning two separate pieces of the puzzle if in reality, only one is bad.

That troubleshooting info Intellitic gave you is really good, I’m going to put it in my notes, hoping I never need it! Is the box still available? Or perhaps the components inside are field repairable?
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Old 08-05-2021, 12:59 PM   #37
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Generally, hard starting (assuming adequate time elapses between shut off to restarting) can only be caused by: defective run and/or start capacitor (if present), start relay (if present) or failing compressor. Less likely if the refrigerant lines are plugged pressures won’t equalize and these older piston-type compressors can’t start easily. If the latter were the case though, you either wouldn’t have cooling at all when it does run, or cooling would be drastically reduced. So the short version make sure the run capacitor is good, start components are good (which you’ve done by adding the SPP6) and as long as you have adequate voltage at the compressor, if you still have start up trouble, as a rule you can condemn the compressor.

You might try testing voltage at some point prior to the delay relay box before condemning your AC unit. Because you could have defective contacts on the contractor causing tremendous voltage drop under load. I’d be tempted to run a good source of 110 volt directly to the AC and see what happens, just to avoid condemning two separate pieces of the puzzle if in reality, only one is bad.

That troubleshooting info Intellitic gave you is really good, I’m going to put it in my notes, hoping I never need it! Is the box still available? Or perhaps the components inside are field repairable?
Yeah im 99% sure the AC is dieing.

The box is not available but they told me there are other options available.

i will look into ordering one.
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Old 08-08-2021, 03:05 PM   #38
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My old 34ft gasser had a 6500w Onan and it would trip a breaker if another heavy load such as the microwave or a hair dryer kicked in while ACs were running.. The newer coach is a DP with 8500w Onan diesel and no problems. I think the bottom line is your 5kw gunny can't source the peak current surge you get when some things start. I'd have the motor starting caps checked first, then look into a soft-start and/or a load alternating device that runs one AC at a time.
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Old 08-08-2021, 04:09 PM   #39
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Its tough on a Bounder 5500. It's supposed to go to shed and monitor itself switching back and forth or both depending on the drain
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Old 08-08-2021, 04:49 PM   #40
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The ONLY Way my Bounder will run Both AC's is If You have Shore Power & The Gen Running, 1992 Fleetwood Bounder
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:03 PM   #41
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Both AC on generator.

Sounds like they are both wired to the 30 amp circuit.
Switch wiring to rear on 20 and or as has been suggested, install soft start kits. They are not expensive and if you are handy you can install yourself. Good instructions and video’s available.
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:09 PM   #42
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check the voltage output...

You might need to clean the slip rings on your gen. When I first got my used '96 Pace Arrow 35D my gen motor ran but no A/C output. Had to replace the voltage regulator...someone wired the coach batteries in series and killed the VR (along with other electrical systems) Still no a/c...cleaned the slip rings with a "slipstick" and the problem was resolved.
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