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Old 06-27-2009, 05:20 PM   #1
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AC not cooling on BT Cruiser

I have a Gulf Stream BT Cruiser model 5291 with an AC issue. The AC is blowing cold air and the dealer says it is the correct temp for the AC output. However the unit struggles to cool the coach and the best I can get is 2 degrees lower than the outside temp, sometimes it's even warmer inside the coach than outside. Today, it was 83 degrees and I can only get the coach to 81 degrees after 1.5 hours with all the blinds closed, insulation pillows in the vents and the overhead cab area closed off by a curtain. I’ve seen someone else with this same issue but I never found the resolution. I’ve also seen one post where an owner said he had the same model in Florida and it was cooling fine so I don’t think it’s a design issue. I checked the volts and amps going to the coach shore power and generator and are ok. Anyone else experiencing this problem or have a suggestion?
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:13 PM   #2
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My first question would be what is the temp of the air coming from the unit? It should be 10 to 15 degrees cooler than the ambient (inside) temp. If it is much less, I would suspect the evaporator coils icing. This can happen with a low freon condition. Is the air blowing full force? This would be another symptom of icing. You can check this by turning the unit to "Fan Only" for a while, if the output air temp is slow to warn up, and/or the air moves faster, it most likely is iced over coils.

Its been 15 years since my adult Voc. Ed class on A/C units.

good luck

Harold
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:29 PM   #3
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Thanks for your reply, I'm unsure what the exact exhaust temp is, but the dealer said it was the correct temp. I took them at their word. There doesn't seem to be much air flowing through the ducts but then I have nothing to compare it to. However, when I open the direct flow and bypass the ducting, there seems to be a sufficient amount of air flowing from the AC. I asked them to check and see if the ducting was plugged. I’m just wondering if there could be some insulation missing some place or maybe it is the AC.

Dan
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:55 PM   #4
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>>>but the dealer said it was the correct temp. I took them at their word.


What was it that Reagen said, "Trust, but verify!"
The right temp is relative to inside ambient temps. Also, with a ducted system, you won't get much force from each vent!

So, if the air coming from the unit is right, relative to inside ambient, (stick a thermometer in the vent to make sure) then it has to be the rigs heat gain.

Has this been a problem before? Is it cooling better at night?

My brother had a '96 30 GS Sun Voyager that would only run one A/C unit on shore power, (I forgot why, its been a long time) and we were in S. Florida and his rig was sitting broad side to the sun and it would not handle the heat load. My little trailer at the time did very well. To this day, I still park my MH facing east. Sun into the windshield to get the early A.M. chill off, awning on the South side for mid afternoon shade, and double walled rear cap for late afternoon sun.

On very hot Southwestern days, 15 degrees cooler than out side is all I get with both units running. So, if it is over 105, we make sure there is a casino near by for the afternoons.

I think I just ran into the Peter Principle.

Harold
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:03 PM   #5
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You need to get a couple of reasonably accurate thermometers. Put on in the outlet and one in the air inlet. Get them as close as possible to the evaporator coil.

The leaving temperature should be 18 to 20 dF lower than the inlet temperature for a small unit like the RV unit. This is with the fan on high and running fro about 10 minutes minimum. If it is less or higher than this, you have a problem. If the dealer tries to tell you anything different, like 10 to 15 dF, he does not know aht he is talking about. Ask him to get it checked by a qualified A/C technician.

I have been designing and selling industrial refrigeration units since 1970. A/C is just a simplified unit. They all work on the same thermodynamic principles.

Ken
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Old 06-28-2009, 03:19 AM   #6
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DanAngie, welcome to iRV2.com and to the Gulf Stream Owners forum. We are glad to have you join us here and we look forward to reading of your adventures and experiences. I might suggest that you drop the ceiling trim down and check to be sure the divider between the discharged air and the return air sections of the main unit on the roof; visible from inside the coach is sealed off very well. If discharged air short cycles back into the return air directly, it can freeze the evaporator coil and not cool the coach properly. Once you have verified this is good then check the temperature drop across the evaporator coil be measuring the temperatures as Ken has described. Good luck and let us know what you find.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
... tries to tell you anything different, like 10 to 15 dF, he does not know aht he is talking about. Ken
Iceman, I'm not a dealer and certainly never claimed to know what I was talking about! It's been a long time since the six hour tech class, and that did not really cover the small units except to say they are a little different! And it defiantly makes sense that smaller units should have a grater temp difference.

Thanks for bailing me out!

Harold

P.S., But, I was on the right track!
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:27 AM   #8
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A/C not cooling the coach

I had this same problem on the brand new 2008 model 5291 on the way home from the dealer in TX.

Here's what I found: The A/C was freezing up causing ice to form in the evaporator coils so the air flow wasn't going through the cold coils.

I opened the air duct outlet on the unit (rear of the filter), turned the A/C cool off and put the fan in manual run mode. After about 10 minutes I could hear pieces of ice in the unit falling to the drip pan. I ran it that way for about 15 minutes to be sure it was all melted and dried out.

(The outlet at the rear of the filter can be a little hard to see. There are tabs that slide the inner panel that opens and closes the outlet.)

Then turned the A/C back to cool and left all the vents open. I caused the freeze up by running the unit with the thermostat at 60 degrees (shouldn't make any difference, but it did in this case) with the outlet at the filter closed. (Thats the way it was delivered to me.)

When I ran the unit with all outlets open and the the thermostat at about 72 (so the unit would cycle) the problem was solved.

Technical: there is a temperature sensor at the evaporator core that should have cycled the compressor before freeze up. It probably is not positioned where it should be and I will look at that one of these days. In the mean time leave all the vents open, especially the large one at the filter and set the thermostat at a comfortable temperature. The unit will not cool any faster regardless of the thermostat setting.

Just like to add: the installation of the duct system in this RV seems to be undersize and with any of the outlets closed the air flow through the evaporator coil is insufficient and allows the coil to get too cold and freezes the condensation to block the flow. It is very important that the center duct located in the filter housing be fully open at all times. The downward direction of that duct is not very well positioned and a deflector probably should be added to make it blow towards the front or back.

Hope that helps!

Something to think about: I'll bet that walking on the roof crushes the duct system in the ceiling! (Just a guess!)
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #9
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bottikeri, thanks for the info, I'll check that out. Just out of curiosity, does the AC unit cool the 5291 enough for use in the TX summer heat?
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #10
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A/C not cooling the coach

It was around 100 degrees most of the trip from Dallas to home, and once I got the evaporator thawed out, the A/C cooled the coach down and started cycling. That was after dark!

The following day I left it on and even when I stopped for a couple of hours (engine air off), the coach stayed very comfortable parked in the sun at 100 degrees. The key seems to be the duct on the unit must be fully opened (which blows down on the top of the slide when the slide is in). The ductwork in the ceiling seems to be too small to allow enough air movement within the unit. If it was engineered properly at the factory, then my guess is that someone walked on the roof and that crushed the channels somewhat. For the first two days when the A/C was running some styrofoam beads came out of the bedroom outlets (found on the bed). That makes me think something may have happened to the channels, either by walking on the roof or lousy assembly.

I haven't used the RV yet since getting it home, and I don't like opening the outlet at the unit because it of it blowing straight down. I'll make a deflector to channel the flow front or back depending on where it's needed.

Please post the results of your findings!
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:17 AM   #11
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The dealer says the temp coming out of the vents is 42 dF. So the only other issue I can figure is not enough air flow which is what bottieri suggested. Or... if there is another item you smart AC guys can recommend I'm happy to check.

Dan
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:11 AM   #12
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These RV A/C units need to have full air flow. Since they are limited in space and duct work, it is critical that you keep all of the air registers fully open. As RV Wizard noted, check to be sure you are not bypassing air from the return air to the supply air side. This will cause freezing problems.

It seems that the older units were more forgiving and also they were assembled better in my opinion. The newer units often do not have the supply and return air sides suitably separated. Pulling down the inside cover is not hard and with a little putty and tape, you can have the sides separated and eliminate a lot of problems.

Dan, I don't think your dealer knows what he is doing on the A/C. If the air is coming at 42 dF it should be on the unit at 62 dF. He needs to look at both temperatures...in and out. He should also check the amps on the unit to get an idea of the compressor load. Was the unit running on high fan speed? Has he checked for air leaking from the supply to the return air side?

It is very hard to find a good small A/C technician. Most can be classified as parts changers at the best. Just take it out and put in a new one.

Hope y'all get the problems worked out.

Ken
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:07 AM   #13
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HA! My wife said the same thing! "Dan, I don't think your dealer knows what he is doing on the A/C." She also said maybe we should wait until we get to TX to have someone who does AC everyday fix it.

Thanks for your continued assistance. The dealer did point out some of the return airflow issues you discuss and recommended some aluminum tape to seal it. Since the unit is still at the dealer I recommended they should do that. I gave them until tomorrow to come up with a fix then it’s going to camping world where they seem like they are more on the ball and I’ll just pay for it.

The RV is brand new and I know this is just part of working out the bugs, but our vacation to TX starts Friday and I’m really pressing them to fix it with some ideas the “parts replacers” might need.

Dan
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:25 PM   #14
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If you are coming to Texas, you need an A/C that works 110%. We have had a week of over 100dF in Houston and parts of the state are well over what we are getting. It is supposed to cool off by the 4th, ...only be in the high 90's. I'll wait and see.

What part of the state do you plan to visit? If you make it to the Houston Area, we love to meet fellow iRV2 folks.

Glad to offer any assistance we can.
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